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Would like advice

2672 Views 21 Replies 5 Participants Last post by  bethmccallister
Ok my male I am thinking may be a poor fox and not tax because his daughters that are like him have whiter bellies and their pups have even better white bellies though they still have a beige tint to them. Am I doing something wrong for tans or getting better foxes? How do I know?

If I am improving foxes then that answers one question and I will keep breeding the foxes to foxes.

Next, my breeding age does minus the ones that are fox are Agouti and a PEW. I do not really want to work with these colors, should I pair off these females to make sure they are not pregnant and cull them? Current litters would need weaned first though.

Of my pups I already plan to keep the agouti tan/fox satin and the black fox(whitest belly so far) satin.

You can see pics in my thread : viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5961

Not sure who else to keep. I like the yellow but currently have no one to pair this one up with. I need to check its gender too. That will make a big difference.

Thanks for any and all advice!
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Ok so I am getting worse tans. Should I scrap the tans then and focus on the satins?
I've been told that in order to improve tan to the vibrant orange color that it should be you need to out cross to a dominant red. I don't know if working with recessive yellow would do the same thing (probably not) but recessive yellow are much more common in the US then dominant reds. There is only one or two breeders that I know of working with those lines. Someday I hope to be one of them because they are so challenging to work with. I have a bunch of mice with the tan gene (at) and a few with the chinchilla gene c(ch) that make the (at) turn the bellies white. I'm not actively working with these lines though. When working with satins or any coat variety it's best to work with mice that are the "self" variety. PEW's make it easy concentrate on the coat alone and not have to work with the color.
What are your goals with the tans, or the satins?
With satins I want to focus on high sheen. I like my recessive yellow pup for that. Very high shine on that one. With the Tans I guess I would need to get them have redder bellies but I do not know how to do that. So I am going to focus on the Satins. I would hate to end up with white bellied tans which is what I am getting. The more I produce the whiter the bellies are which is why I thought maybe the male was actually a bad fox and not a poor tan. It's no biggie, I see satins around from time to time so fresh stock can be found I just have to be very selective on which I choose to bring in. I will cull any satins that are not high sheen or self, and from the ones left keep the largest to breed thus meeting both goals at once. As my other goal is to get my mice to have slightly longer bodies. Currently they are under 4 inches, closer to 3 really, I want to see them reach 4 inches, possibly go over that.
You don't get poor satin coats and good satin coats, it just is satin or it isn't - which makes things easier for you :)

Sarah xxx
SarahY said:
You don't get poor satin coats and good satin coats, it just is satin or it isn't - which makes things easier for you :)

Sarah xxx
That is odd because I have seen some satins that were eye popping shiny and others that were obviously satin but not that amazing. In this litter even. The yellow pup and one of the grays are just amazing, then there are the other satins that are more like oh look satin and then the normal coated pups. Deffinite differences between each group. I've seen varying degrees of shine at the pet shops too. I know you are thinking its just the color doing it right? Well I have 2 gray satins, identical in color but one has a higher shine. Not trying to argue, just trying to understand. I mean you see the same thing with satin rabbits. Some have better shine than others.
Colours make a difference in satins. Lighter colours shine much better than darker colours.
Ivory satins are beautiful, RY satins are lovely, dove satins are also good looking. )

There are some satins that can have a greasy look to them, too. Those are not appealing.
I'm not going to argue, I'm just going to breed with my goals in mind. I do appreciate the input.
:lol: Okay then.

Satin is caused by hollow hairs. It all has to do with colour, saturation of colour, and cleanliness if an animals is shiny, or dull.
Ok so its not technically the shine I will be focusing on but the color saturation. I am guessing less pigment would make it easier for the light to reflect thus causing the higher shine?
I'm not exactly sure. You don't want to take away too much of the colour, because your mouse will be a shiny dull colour, but you don't want to add too much colour, because it won't shine! :lol:

Slippery slope. What colour did you have in mind? RY, right? RY comes in tond of shades. The bright orange ones make for lovely satins, as well as the pale yellow.
Yes, RYs and I am not sure what color the grays are, can you help with that? Here they are:

Then there is this little oddball:

I think those are the satins I will start with. See the clean bright shine?
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The gray ones are blues possibly even a dark dove...are their eyes pink or black? A couple of them appear to have a mix of things going on perhaps some RY and blue on the same mouse? Blues and Reds are my favorite.
Rhasputin has some super shiny satins even shinier than my single one :D

Are Angora Satins less "shiny" than Satins?
Is an angora is satin angora, I find that they seem even more shiny, personally.
what??? I dont understand what you just said sorry im having a "dull" moment :lol:

I asked why it seems that Satin Angora seems less shiny than regular Satins
Oh. I don't find that to be the case. :p
I think my angora satins are more glossy than the standards. Although, it may be that if you have a poor angora, the fur density isn't even, so the light reflects un-evenly creating a dull look. :)
Ah ok well ill just have to fix that with my 2 lovies im getting ;)
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