[Jack Garcia]

A lot of people have that problem, and that's why they breed 10 or 12 varieties and get nowhere with any of them. So good on you for choosing, even if it's taking a while!

Rumpwhites are a marked variety and as such usually aren't as typey as the larger, pale selfs, although some that I've seen (of Cait's in particular) are not bad at all. They, like any marked variety, require a lot of room and large numbers of mice be kept, though.

If by cream you mean chinchillated red, they also have problems with type since reds are by default less typey due to their problems breeding.

Chocolate tans and siamese both have potential for good type. I've seen some really nice chocolate tans on the show bench but it's always a challenge (at least in the US) to keep type up while aiming for that deep red belly color that's required.

 

[Jack Garcia]

Oh, that is good to know. I recommend cream, then!

Incidentally, "cream" seems like one of those varieties that is different (genetically) in every country! lol

 

[Jack Garcia]

Well, honestly, I'm sucker for PEW. A few years ago I would have told you they were too plain and common, but a good one can beat any other color on the show bench!

Maybe you could start out with PEWs and then if you want cream (ce/c) you could do that since they're related to one another?

 

[Jack Garcia]

Cinnamon, agouti, and red go together, as do bone, PEW, and ivory. Sable, black tan, and red can be bred together (but at the expense of the red) and so can dove and silver (sometimes).

Most c-dilutes (siamese, himalayan, chinchilla, etc) should never be bred to any mice who are not the same kind as them. Breeding in C-dilutes to a black or blue or (for example) will quickly ruin most other colors.

 

[Jack Garcia]

You are right, Ian. Black selfs must be bred ONLY to other black selfs, or else you will compromise the black selfs at the expense of whatever else you're breeding. I have a black self who has a light nose most likely because he's the product of siamese X black. Blacks are one of the few varieties with no acceptable outcross.

 

[Jack Garcia]

Not necessarily, no. This is because black tans aren't "black mice with a tan belly" like you might think. In other words, black tans are not a/a with some sort of "tan factor" built in. The tan is a part of the top color, at/*.

To phrase that another way, a black tan is not just a black mouse with a tan belly. The "black tannness" is separate from the "blackness," if that makes sense. The A-locus hierarchy goes like this: Ay, Avy, Aw, A, at, am, a, ae. Tan (at) and black (a) are in separate places and produce separate phenotypes.

The best outcross for black tan is probably blue tan or chocolate tan (I'd choose blue tan, personally). You still have to be careful, though, because blues and chocolates often have modifiers lurking around, modifiers that will compromise the top color of the black tan.

I think a too-dark sable would also work as an outcross for black tan, but only very carefully and rarely. It's best to breed black tans to only black tans if you can help it at all.

 

[Jack Garcia]

It's all very confusing and if you have any sort of social life at all you can never learn everything there is to know. We're all constantly learning.