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What would you call this color?

1899 Views 11 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  Seawatch Stud
I started a new line recently. My only goal was to get some really nice type mice that are marked/broken. Since I only have this one doe to start with and at the time one Siamese or Himi (verdic is still out on that one) buck that is breeding age I put them together to "see what I get". I need to choose a buck from this little to breed back to the mom and then I should see some marked/broken babs.

Here is the mom, Moo. No idea on the genecode so please feel free to comment. I'm saying she is a broken white/black but the black could be a really dark blue. She has a white spot free tummy. Do the white hairs in the colored spots look like roan?

I have 6 babies in all, 3 weeks old at the moment, and generally they all look the same except for 2 black/tan ones with tiny little white head spots.

Here is the mystery color...

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Its a sepia fox - one of the brown series plus tan plus chinchilation. Probably too much information, a better description would be to say its a chocolate with a white belly. The bleaching gene that dilutes tan onthe belly to white also degardes the chocolate top colour, so the choc always appears a bit lighter than a good rich chocolate .
But what they are is in fabulous condition, a credit to you .
Why thank you for the wonderful compliment and also for the help in color id. I will pull out my gene codes and see if I can match up the codes to the color combination you described. Again, thank you so much...I'm beeming :D
Glad to of been of help, if you magine a full colour chocolate tan, with a rich dark chocolate top, and a fiery red tan belly ( you can find a phot on the net ) and then Chinchilate it, (chinchilation reduces yellow to white ) and partly bleaches other colours, you end up with a white belly, and reduced top colour, minimised by selection in exhibition strains.
I punched in the genecode combination into my genetics calculator: at/a B/* cch/ch D/* E/* P/* S/s which equals a Burmese Fox and a spotting carrier...does that sound right? I'm fairly certain that the father is now a Siamese which would give him two copies of c(h). The mom is chinchillated from what you've helped me figure out (yeah!) which is c(ch)...not sure if she has two copies of c(ch) but I'm assuming it's c(ch)c. I started with the Sepia Fox which gave me the B/* and the a(t) codes but when I adjusted the genes to have c(h) it gave me a Burmese Fox!
at/* cch/c or at/* cch/ce or at/* ce/c could all produce this color, as could a light at/* ce/ce (but that seems less likely). If the mouse develops points, you know one of the C-alleles must be ch. If she never does, you can be reasonably sure one of them is not ch.

FWIW, I have mice who are a/a cch/c and are nearly identical in color (the byproducts of other matings), only minus the white belly. Jenny calls them "mud." Heterozygosity on the C-locus can do strange things and produce a whole range of colors from nearly black to nearly white.

bethmccallister said:
Here is the mom, Moo. No idea on the genecode so please feel free to comment.
The mother is a black marked mouse, not blue and not roan (and also not broken, since broken describes a specific show pattern), just a very poor example of a marked mouse (the hairs should not intermingle and should be more numerous and better arranged). She's very cute, though, and you can tell she is well-taken care of! Her gene code would be a/a s/s, and on the C-locus she is probably either C/cch, or C/ce.

Btw, if the wild type allele is showing and you don't know if he or she carries something (as in the case of B/*, D/*, E/*, and P/*), you can leave it off if you want to. Otherwise, you'd have a genecode 20+ alleles long for every mouse. :p
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Someone showed a sepia fox at last years annual cup show(cant remember who) it was a cracker. Obviously it was shown in the unstandardised class.
the black tan looks like a fox too...
Seawatch Stud said:
Someone showed a sepia fox at last years annual cup show(cant remember who) it was a cracker. Obviously it was shown in the unstandardised class.
Dave B.I did have a picture of it but I might have deleted it.I'll look.

Edit this to say it was Dave that judged it,I think Stuart might have owned it.
So being a cracker would be a good thing or bad? I don't understand that reference. I will try to get a better picture of the Black and whatever...I thought I saw a very faded tan line before the white started but now I'm not sure and will look again. I'm due to seperate them out's interesting how sweet and calm they are.

I think I'm understanding that by show standards the color isn't wanted which would make sense since I can't even tell what it is, lol. I have a Chocolate self doe with good type, would breeding her to the Sepia Fox/Burmese Fox (whatever they proves to be) buck be a good idea or perhaps just with the Black and whatever sister with a head spot? They do seem to have a good type and temperment so naturally I would want to improve the color to something desirable in the next generation.
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