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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need a nice extreme black buck to help with some colours that I want to change in some of my mice. An extreme dark blue would work just as well, but it would need to be super duper dark blue. :)

I live in Richmond Virginia, and can drive a little ways to pick one up.
I can also wait until October Rodent fest, if someone is planning a litter between now and then, please let me know!
 

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I might have some by fall Rodent Fest.

Be careful when receiving extreme black, though. The "extreme blacks" that a few others have aren't really extreme non-agouti (ae/ae), but rather simple non-agouti (a/a) bred to be dark (they're still good blacks, though). This is evidenced by their few yellow hairs (real ae/ae has a total 0 yellow hairs, not even one) and also by the fact that one of the people said she had "extreme black tan" which is impossible and indicates that she doesn't really know what she has. :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I've seen people call 'extremely nice blacks' by the name 'extreme black', and sometimes, it's hard to tell if you don't know better. :roll:

If you have some by fall rodent fest, I'd love to see pictures of them whenever you get a litter going. :)
You will have extreme blacks? I don't -think- you breed extreme blues, but you never know! :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Would a really dark a/a be fine to darken up blues? Cause if so, one of those would be fine too. :)

I had used normal blacks to get from a light blue to a darker blue. But then I saw an amazing mouse from the Krakow show, that just amazed me, and I'd really like to darken mind up to that colour. :)
 

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I don't breed blue, no.

An easy way to think of it is that if a mouse has even a single yellow hair, it is not extreme black. If it has no yellow hairs, it could be either black or extreme black. In other words, one category is exclusive but the other is not.

A really good black could help darken blues, but the best way is to breed only the most consistent blues to each other. That avoids breeding in any possible unwanted recessives.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yeah. I get what you're saying about the recessives sneaking in . . .
I've got a few blues that I wouldn't mind 'experimenting' on. I really like the idea of doing stuff the hard way I guess, lol.
I'd also like to get a nice black buck to help with a few other mouse line colours. He can be multi-functional. :D
 

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This is evidenced by their few yellow hairs (real ae/ae has a total 0 yellow hairs, not even one) and also by the fact that one of the people said she had "extreme black tan" which is impossible and indicates that she doesn't really know what she has.
It is possible, however, to have a mouse that is a^t/a^e which does look different from a mouse that is either a^t/a or a^t/a^t. Perhaps this is what the breeder meant by an "extreme black tan"?

Matt has some extreme black from a breeder in the U.S. and neither bucks have any tan hairs. His need some work right now though, so we won't have any available. We do plan to get some more from another breeder that has UK imports. You should get some from Jack, though, his are already very nice and readily available.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Jack's blacks are really swell. :D

I hope I can get a nice buck from him, that would really help some of my breeding along.
Not only with colour, but with shape and size too. :)
The lines that I would use the buck in, are my two best lines. Rexes and texels. :cool:
 

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Yep, mine are available. As soon as they're born (right now most are still in utero)! :lol:

I think, Allison, what happens with mice who are at/ae and who appear dark and evenly colored is that the modifiers for even pigment across the toes, ears, and such which have accumulated in the ae/ae mice are then (at least partially) passed down with the one "ae" allele. This is why even a/ae mice sometimes but not always look darker than a/a mice who have not been exposed to the same modifiers. I can't prove that, though. It's just an educated "hunch" on my part. :p

Casey, I will have some extreme black at the next Rodent Fest and the next ECMA show, which will be sooner than Rodent Fest and may end up being pretty close to you. :)

They're not as small as I had been led to believe they were, but they're also not as typey, and some do carry Siamese (they were used to help darken the Siamese in Europe), but they carry nothing else. The ones I'm crossing into American mice might carry PE.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It's fine that they carry siamese. That'll be something that I can easily spot, and cull out. If they carried something dark, it would be more irritating to try and pick them apart early on. :p

When is the next ECMA show? :O
Andwhy haven't I heard about it yet? :lol:
 

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When doing outcrosses, the reason I chose to possibly introduce a dilute like PE instead of an allele like agouti is because you can see it from birth and it's easier to cull. That's not the reason the original breeder in Europe introduced Siamese, but it has the same effect: light-eyed babies are easy to spot from day 1.

Are you a member of the ECMA? The monthly newsletter will have info about the show when it's announced and as always the public is invited so even if you're not a member you are still welcome to attend, but I don't know if non-members can actually sign up for the newsletter (I'm not sure how that works--Jenny would know for sure). It will be announced elsewhere, too, though.

The place and time of next show is still being worked out the last time I checked, but it will likely be somewhere Southernly since the last few shows have all been Midwestern, North Eastern, and Mid-Atlantic. Our territory covers the whole Eastern seaboard, but I personally think we're due for a Southern show! Easier for people like you and me (and a few others) to travel to.

The last couple of shows we've had have had really excellent turn outs (the one in Ohio had many members of the public, plus all the officials and breeders, which if you know anything about mouse shows is A LOT of people) so I'm confident we can keep that up if we do a Southern show because so many of us live relatively close. Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee and of course Kentucky all have multiple ECMA members living in them, and for that matter so does Virginia. Virginia is like Kentucky, though--only in the South when it wants to be! :lol:

I'll trade you a mouse for some animal bones! :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Sure! PM me and let me know what kind of bones you're interested in. I also make jewelry and keychains from bones. Mostly necklaces from antler, and earrings from small animal bones. I have loads of skulls laying around. Pm me and we can surely work something out! :)
 

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Yep, mine are available. As soon as they're born (right now most are still in utero)!
You mean you can't make them arrive early and age faster?! Thats ridiculous. What kind of breeder are you?! :lol:

I think, Allison, what happens with mice who are at/ae and who appear dark and evenly colored is that the modifiers for even pigment across the toes, ears, and such which have accumulated in the ae/ae mice are then (at least partially) passed down with the one "ae" allele. This is why even a/ae mice sometimes but not always look darker than a/a mice who have not been exposed to the same modifiers. I can't prove that, though. It's just an educated "hunch" on my part.
Roland had an excellent photo of the different phenotypes of at/a versus at/ae.
Here is the link (in case you don't have it handy, and this will take you right to the page with the photos): http://tinyurl.com/ybh5rth
 
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