Am I the ony one who thinks it is a flipping cheek that you have to pay money and join a club in order to find breeders in order to buy mice from them?
A bit like Tesco asking you to join a tesco club before they'd let you into one of their supermarkets.It's all in aid of making moeny. Why not simply sell the breeder lists for a fiver a time and be honest about it?
i think the reason sarah suggested joining the NMC is that the book of contacts is huge, and all by area, its great, and also as it lists what varieties people breed, so if you are after something specific you are going to have alot more luck going through the club, and its not very much to join. another reason could be that i think maybe more than half of the breeders in the club don't use the internet so its the only way of getting hold of them.
I may also assume that these breeders don't want their contacts being given out everywhere which when given through the club is a nice friendly way of going about it all, I've been in the NMC for almost a year now and have made some good contacts that way, and also got some great mice. I would say its also worth joining just for the information pack you get at the beginning as it's really interesting.
Otherwise, you can still find alot of breeders here on this site who are internet savvy, I'm just not sure how alot of people would feel about giving out out contacts willy nilly. You could always try writing to the NMC and asking them if they wouldnt mind providing you with breeders contacts in your area? worth a go.
Daisy is right, people do not want their contacts, which are all personal addresses and phone numbers, given out to the general public at random. The reason to join the NMC is because these are SHOW mice, not pet mice, and therefore the breeders want them to go to further the fancy not as pets. They may sell some that are not of good enough quality to exhibit as pets, but generally speaking they would like their animals to contribute to the future of the hobby, not be lost for breeding purposes. Those who sell mice as pets often advertise on forums such as this one and may or may not also be show breeders.
There's nothing dishonest about charging people to join a club to get breeder info. I'm a member of two Bull Terrier Club's, a national one and a local S.E area one, and the way to find those breeders is through membership of the club and attending shows, unless you can find breeder ads or websites online. This is the same deal - the NMC is an association for breeding 'pedigree' animals. Nothing to be 'honest' about - it operates in the same way as all other breeder associations.
Additionally, agreeing with the points made above, this is to protect the contact details of members, and also because it takes a lot of time, effort and money to breed mice that are as good as the animals we have, and they aren't for mass production and sale as pets. Breeders want them to go to other breeders that will continue to work and put as much effort into that variety as they have.
Thanks for all you replys on this.............. I full understand all your vews on NMC membership...... might I add I am hoping to join the NMC in the new year as I am very interested in all aspects of mice.... and I might suscribe to the magazine too. Thankyou.
The best way to further anything is to sell the surplus as pets. If I only sold my top winning Welsummer bantams to other people who would show and killed anything not show quality it would keep the numbers down. Since I love the breed, I want as many people to also love them and if my good quality, well bred birds, go to pet homes where they'll be loved and cared for, and perhaps even encourage those petr owners to maybe enter a show one day, then that is better than the first scenario. To kill anything not up to standard, rather than let then go as pets, smacks of rosette chasing to me. To win at all costs as winning is more important than an animal's life.
Personally as a pet mouse owner who still wants well bred if not perfect fancy mice, I find it frustrating in the extreme that someone might think that I am not worthy of owning one of their surplus stock which isn't good enough to show. Frankly, if most of the show people would rather kill than sell as pets, I don't think I want to be associated with such a nasty selfish callous lot of human beings.
I'm sorry to hear that you seem to have come to the wrong colclusion fenwoman, most of us breeders within the NMC do sell our surplus stock to petshops or to people for pets through sites such as this, and their top quality mice they keep for themselves or swop about within the NMC, it's not like we all have SO many mice coming out of ears that we need to cull them rather than give them up as pets, its a real shame that i think you have been mistaken and got the wrong impression.
I for one and i'm pretty sure the breeders I know would NOT cull a show quality mouse rather than sell for a pet - and i really don't think thats the idea anyone meant to give you.
The only thing that has been mistaken here is breeders not wanting to hand out other breeders contact numbers. And in the beginning the suggestion was made by sarah to join up to the NMC as a helpful tip, which i'm sure other people such as dangermouse found it.
The breeders information is held within a club book that is available to you upon joining; you mentioned before that perhaps the NMC could just sell the contacts for a fiver, well it's not more than a couple of fivers to join the organisation to begin with. and i would say that the club runs on love of the fancy rather than it being out for the money. its only pence to enter the shows and i would say its more about pride and personal acheivement than anything.
noone on here has suggested or even hinted that you are unworthy of owning any mice bred by any of us and it is only you that has come to that conclusion. I myself am more than happy for my 'surplus' to go to loving pet homes and i'm sure if you look through past adverts in the MICE FOR SALE section you will see others who have advertised near perfect mice for sale for the same reason.
I would also point out that none of my mice go to waste, they are either kept within my mousery, sold or swoped onto other breeders, sold as pets or go to my sisters huge reptile collection for good quality food. no wastage in my mousery.
you say you "don't want to be associated with such a nasty selfish callous lot of human beings" I'm very sorry you feel like this and am astonished you think this is what we are like from one post where all anyone was trying to do was help someone out in the first place!
If you want to be rude, maybe you'd better look elsewhere other than a mouse breeders forum to hang out. Try thinking before you type. Go join a pet breeders forum. You've offended a lot of people - but you want pet's from show lines - why? Because they're big, strong, live a long time, are healthy and they look good. How hypocritical.
How many mice do you see for sale in pet shops? Pet shops on the whole do not take mice to sell as pets because people buy them to feed to other animals. You can try and advertise them online, but very rarely do you sell any. I always advertise my mice, and 99% of the time i don't manage to home any. If you breed mice, you're going to produce excess animals.
If you want to save them all, good luck to you - you can start by coming over here and bringing six cages for the six silver bucks i have that i don't and won't need for breeding. These are the facts of breeding any small rodent. If you don't like it, or can't even see our point of view even though it's not something you would do yourself, don't buy show standard mice, and don't hang out on a mouse breeding forum.
To be fair Fenwoman, the breeding practises of birds and rodents are not at all comparable. Bantams don't require their mothers to feed them milk after they've hatched, they are completely reliant on their humans to give them as much food as they need no matter how many there are. For the first couple of weeks, when mice grow the quickest, they have to compete with littermates for milk, and mice raised from a litter of 6 are going to be bigger and healthier than those raised in a litter of 12. In addition to this, are male bantams more difficult to sell as pets compared with females? No-one wants pet male mice as their hormones can be problematic and they smell so much more than the ladies - so what is a breeder supposed to do with a large, buck heavy litter?
My last comment is that the way that exhibition mice have been bred and raised over the last centuary has had a huge impact on them, and it's largely because of the practises that you and a lot of others find so abbhorrent that the modern exhibiton mouse is such a healthy, beautiful animal - if it wasn't then all mice would be just as large and typey, no matter what their origins.
if you buy any 'breed' of animal within in a species including poultry you have to accept that inbreeding has occured at some point and hundreds of surplus animals will have been produced before they all look alike and become a distinct breed.If you keep any pure bred animal you have bought into this concept .Even if you don't breed many somebody in the past has done so to allow you to own the breed you admire.
I think you're labouring under a bit of a misapprehension fenwoman, which I would like to address. As I said above, some breeders do sell their animals as pets when they are not up to show standard. Culling is NOT done as a selfish act to prevent anyone else getting their hands on quality animals, it is done to create quality animals in the first place - mice are designed to raise 3-4 babies and this is proved by various scientific studies, therefore a litter is culled to let the best offspring thrive. I take offense at your post and I hope you will take my points on board and not continue to believe that breeders strive to keep their animals away from pet owners. On the contrary, many try without success to find homes for their animals regardless of what wonderful mice they are and what good pets they'd make.