[moustress]

In responses to a request, here are pix of a couple of different kinds of ticked tris.

First is and old sweetie, Schmitty. an agouti tri He's almost two years old, and was bred once. He has a really thick long coat, and is a real cuddlebuddy.





Next is a young blue agouti tri:



I accidentally posted a pic of a boy and labeled it as a girl. Sorry. They say the mind is the first thing to go....

 

[Jack Garcia]

Are you certain those are ticked tricolors?

In my opinion, I'm unsure what the first one is, as his coat is in very poor condition. In any tricolor, the coat must lie close to the body and be sleek so that you can clearly see the difference in color.

The other mouse seems to be a black and beige tricolor (a/a ce/ce Spl/* s/s or a/a ce/c Spl/* s/s).

Ticked tricolors cannot have black spots of any kind (black spots mean the mouse is a/a). This is what a ticked tri looks like:

They're cinnamon tricolors entered into the Summer 2009 ECMA show by Jenny Erwin (I took the photo in our hotel room).

edit: the one farthest right is the best example. You can see how the areas of color are different, but both ticked.

 

[moustress]

You are getting up in my grill, Jack. Schmitty has a perfectly lovely coat; I especially like this kind of long hair that feathers in
layers. It's one of my favorite types of coats, and I have selected for it in many cases.

First of all, blue is a dilution from black, so reversion to black happens. Secondly, If an agouti tri is Aa, you get reversion to black in part. Third, you know I don't breed for who standard. An fourth of all, and perhaps most important to me is that I strongly hold that the definitions and standards have been set prematurely before the whole ball of wax has been described properly.

Fifth, how long is that soapbox or yours going to last?

 

[Jack Garcia]

Blue does not revert to black in the case of A/a or A/A because the mouse wouldn't be blue in the first place--it would be blue agouti. Blue also does not revert to black because blue is not on the c-locus*. The mouse you posted and labeled as such is clearly not blue or blue agouti, at any rate. Ask any respectable mouse breeder or anyone familiar with coat and color genetics and they will tell you the same thing I am telling you. You don't have to take my word for it. I encourage you to ask any breeder of tricolors. I can privately give you the email addresses of four different experienced tricolor breeders (3 American, 1 European) if you want them.

*Beige is on the c-locus and does revert to black, and that is what you have posted a photo of.

The picture I posted is what ticked tricolors actually look like.

I'm not trying to get on your goat (you must distinguish between the personal and the fact-based; correcting someone's erroneous genetics information is not a personal attack). I try to clear up wrong information whenever I see it being disseminated, and it so happens that you post incorrect genetics/variety information quite a lot unfortunately.

Please excuse any typing errors. I have a hurt thumb.

 

[moustress]

We're talking tricolors here, Jack. Unexpected and odd things happen with tri. Oh, and don't tell me my mousie's coat is 'wrong'; that is just plain wrong. Blue is a dilution of black. A combination of dilution factors along with tri can create combinations that are otherwise not possible with ordinary meeces. Yes, I'm, saying that there are two factors one dilutes up, another dilutes down, in one mousie. Pretty slick. Complicated, but slick.

You are entitled to an opinion, but you are not the arbiter of fact, or reality, or 'right' or wrong, for that matter.

 

[Jack Garcia]

In a way, it's unfortunate that more people here don't have experience with tricolors. It would be good to have more people who were really familiar with how coat and color genetics works. That way it wouldn't look like a personal back-and-forth between me and you--because the issue is really not about the personalities, but rather about relaying complete and accurate information whenever possible. At the end of the day, I am content to let the facts (and very importantly, the photographs) speak for themselves.

 

[moustress]

What you see isn't always what you get.

 

[Jack Garcia]

Then why post pictures as examples of varieties at all?

 

[Loganberry]

Very amusing bit of banter! I side with Jack, particularly in his last point. If you don't breed to standard, don't post pix and call those mice examples of a variety.

 

[moustress]

Since this is neither the breeding section nor the genetics section, you may question why I call these what I call these, but you should not tell me what to do with my pictures. I am more than willing to explain further ; but I'm not willing to be pushed around by you or anyone else.

You are blessed to be so easily amused. Taking sides is for teams; I suggest you find the arena and someone willing to play like that. Your venialty will no doubt do you well there.

 

[Loganberry]

aw, bless

 

[Jack Garcia]

Thanks Loganberry. I appreciate it.

Moustress, nobody is pushing you around. Relax. A long time ago a priest friend of mine told me, "nobody ever died from taking too many deep breaths." It's true.

 

[Weema-Nerang Mousery]

Jack Garcia wrote: "Ticked Tri colours cannot have black spots of any kind"

Hey Jack, the mouse on the right has 2 distinct black spots! Zoom in and enhance the pic.

Or are you going to tell us that it doesn't?

As an outsider looking in who has no idea about tri-colours it does seem like you seek 'Moustress' out to try and make her look like she has no idea.

Moustress doesn't show mice, she breeds them, so a standard probrably means 'stuff all' to her. This forum is titled "Fancy Mice Breeders" 'Fancy means to keep as a hobby. So I believe that Moustress has every right to show her photo's here and not be constantly attacked by you on whether or not they are correct to the standards you follow.

Moustress: I think your mice are gorgeous and Schmitty has a beautiful fluffy coat. Keep doing what you are doing and don't let 'know nothing, know all's' try to deter you from the brilliant job you are doing with Tri's.

No doubt I will feel Jack's wrath, soon enough. Reminds me of our very own 'Andrew Bolt' :lol:

 

[WillowDragon]

I don't usually get involved too deeply in threads with the names 'moustress' and 'Jack Garcia' in them anymore... I read them, but don't get involved, because I enjoy looking at moustress' mice and am good friends with Jack.

BUT, I will say this... if this thread continues on the slippery slope it is on, I will request it to be shut down. This forum does not need people 'taking sides'... express your opinion in a polite manner, constructive critisism, debate... but catty remarks are not appreciated.

I'm asking all parties involved to please stop. Mouse people need to stick together, there are so few of us... and personally I think its about time Jack and moustress' agreed to disagree.

 

[Jack Garcia]

Do you mean the eyeballs? They're black.

Perhaps your monitor resolution is slightly different than mine or moustress'.

At any rate, the issue is not as to whether not moustress has the "right" to post her photos here. Of course she can post pictures. But this isn't about her or me or anybody else. It's about mice. What no one has the right to do is post pictures of mis-labeled mice and expect them not to be corrected or at the very least, challenged. I will correct any variety/genetics errors I see, regardless of who posts them. It just so happens that most are posted by this one person and most readers (like you), due to geographical reasons, have no experience with Splashed or tricolors so, I am the only person who can correct these particular errors. If I were to post mis-labeled mice or were to be wrong on genetics information, I expect (and hope) to be corrected. That's what the Internet is about: learning and sharing information. But that information has to be accurate.

As much as I have tried to keep it from becoming so, it seems this post is becoming too personal so I will no longer reply to personal points. We will have to agree to disagree. The record and photos speak for themselves. I will still respond to variety/genetics information as needed. Be well!

edit: Willow, we posted at the same time!

 

[moustress]

:roll: A whole lot of whatever....

 

[DomLangowski]

Thread closed. Will be in contact with parties involved shortly.