I agree, black satins don't look significantly different enough to normal blacks when you're talking about show mice. You have to check the belly to be able to tell conclusively. Blue satins are nice but again I agree, they can get too dark as with a lot of satins. This is why ivory has this allowed for in the name/standard and isn't referred to as PE white satin. Satins show off better in light self colours, though any with contrasting colours show it quite obviously too. I have a sable satin buck at the moment and it's quite attractive - the top looks like a good glossy coat but as it shades down to the tan coloured belly you can see the satin much better at first glance.