[icedmice]

Within our club they seem really importaint to members, kintraks is the most popular method.

I find them a pain in the bottom to maintain. Reason is I pure breed (I'm probably the only one that does it). Hopefully, eventually all you will see in my pedigrees are the exact same mice as far as the eye can see so it seems rather pointless if you know they aren't carrying anything different. What does it matter if they are realated to a multiple grand champion winner, shouldn't it matter more about the quality of the actual animal?
At the end of the day being related to a grand champion isn't going to make a difference if that offspring just happens to be a poor example.

I really, really, really want animals that are distinguisable from pet store animals as exhibition stock. The club I am part of is supposed to be a casual club it's really more for the benifit of those that keep rodents as pets. I do keep them as pets but want to take my programs that one step furthur.

Naturally I have cage tags that has the date of pairing, date to remove buck and date the litter is expected. I record weights of pups at weekly intervals take note of any issues that arise in a line and keep an eye out for anything that may compromise my program.

Do you feel pedigrees are necessary?

 

[SarahC]

I wouldn't dream of keeping anything so labour intensive.Mine get a stcky label on the cage with the date of birth and occasional other details if I want something specific.Nothing else.

 

[PPVallhunds]

so far ive got my pedigrees in my head, keep meaning to right them down. I keep them purly for myself as i like to know who came form where and like seeing it back to my first mice. Also ive been outcrossing, mainly due to finding it hard to find the colours i want so it helps me work out the colour genetics. I think its personal choice than a nesseserty realy.

 

[tinyhartmouseries]

I really, really, really want animals that are distinguisable from pet store animals as exhibition stock.

This is al ot of the reason I keep pedigrees. I use http://www.mouserydatabase.com though occasionally I do drift behind, it's helpful for me to remember and my adoptors really get a kick out of having a pedigreed mouse. It shows them proof that you are serious and aren't a mouse miller, but instead give thought to every pairing.

 

[WillowDragon]

I have had some fabulous mice, from amazing breeders and gotten DOBs and thats it... The proof of how good the mouse is should be evident in the mouse, not in whether they have winning parentage.
Most people on here know that you can lose type in only one generation, how good the grandparents are matters not one jot if the breeding since then has been rubbish.

 

[SarahY]

I think it depends on the type of people for whom you are breeding mice. I breed mice totally for myself and I don't sell pet mice any more, so pedigrees are totally unnecessary for me. As Willowdragon has said, it's all about the mouse you're holding at the time when you're showing them. That being said, I do keep scrupulous records so can produce pedigrees if required. I bred my doves into my Dutch line to improve the type and size of the Dutch, and for my current Dutch I could produce pedigrees going back to the original argente trio I bought in 2008. Not that I would bother, it take aaaages :lol:

Pet owners do like to see something that shows you haven't been churning them out willy-nilly, but have put thought into your pairings, which result in the animals for which they are paying money.

Pedigrees pose plenty of problems in themselves though. When I bred rats, I had a couple come to buy some kittens. They left in disgust (without any rats) because the same rat appeared in the pedigree three times. I tried to explain about inbreeding but they were having none of it. Secondly, there is nothing to stop breeders making it all up anyway. Thirdly, names mean nothing and a pedigree does not tell you about the healthy and overall quality of the line.

So, to answer the original question, I feel that pedigrees are a total waste of time

 

[Wight Isle Stud]

when something goes wrong, or goes good, its very valuable to b able to go back to the grandparents. However, with me that amounts to a well dog eared and dusty card drawing pinned to the box. I hate paperwork especially in my Hobby and frequently use a pencill on the box lids.

 

[jadeguppy]

I"m finding mouserydatabase very helpful in learning the genetics and how lines can improve or not. I find it helpful to know what recessive genes a mouse is carrying as well as a good way to keep up with who was born when and which mouse was bred to which in case there becomes a problem and I need to track down the line. I'm new to breeding, so some people may be able to do this all in their head. For me, a quick note in the database keeps me from having to do more work or trying to recall something months later.

 

[icedmice]

It shows them proof that you are serious and aren't a mouse miller, but instead give thought to every pairing.

I don't think a pedigree is a difinitive way of distinguishing a good breeder from a "miller". Granted millers typically don't use pedigrees, but there are also those that do use pedigrees and don't put much thought into pairing.

I do keep pedigrees BTW and they are accurate and current, but I find them a hinderance because I don't find the information of significant value. For colour genetics it's helpful but other than that it misses out on some essential information. I use Kintraks software.
I also keep a seperate database on microsoft word with notes about any abnormailties in the line including tumour growth, runts, slow development etc. It's not isolated to a specific mating but rather notes about the overall health of a line. With rats we even take pre breeding weights.

I also use cage tags with Date of pairing/when to sepearate buck/DOB...see where I'm going. There is plenty of evidence to support the fact I'm serious about my fancy. The pedigree is not as valuable to me as other records I keep which I believe to be of more value in producing a quality animal.

Pet owners do like to see something that shows you haven't been churning them out willy-nilly, but have put thought into your pairings, which result in the animals for which they are paying money.

Pedigrees pose plenty of problems in themselves though. When I bred rats, I had a couple come to buy some kittens. They left in disgust (without any rats) because the same rat appeared in the pedigree three times. I tried to explain about inbreeding but they were having none of it. Secondly, there is nothing to stop breeders making it all up anyway. Thirdly, names mean nothing and a pedigree does not tell you about the healthy and overall quality of the line.

So, to answer the original question, I feel that pedigrees are a total waste of time

Pet owners don't pay a great deal $15 a single sex pair (does usually), taking into account the cost and effort invested to produce a quality animal. I also don't want to encourage people to breed from my animals under the false assumption they may be able to make more money from pedigreed stock. I don't supply pedigrees to pet homes because they are pets, there is no need for a pedigree. I used to supply birth certificates but now they just get the beginers care pack with food/professionally printed care pamphlet and my contact details - plus the animal has been treated for internal and external parasites. There is more than enough value for money.

To breeders I supply laminated or sleeved copies of pedigrees and they pay even less...$5 each the equivalent of a small cup of coffee and cinnamon toast. It isn't common in our fancy to purchase a pair or trio from a particular line, it isn't even common for people to have genuine lines. Single animal adoptions seems to be the trend.

Inbreeding unfortunately has been tarred by those that use it poorly to develop traits detrimental to an animal's health. It can be equally as useful in doing to opposite but some people choose to ignore this fact and to them I'd say they are free to select from another source. It's probably for the best they didn't choose your animals Sarah, they didn't deserve the privelage.

Thanks for sharing. I still do keep pedigrees and will continue to do so. Just another part of the wonderful Australian culture in mouse breeding .

 

[WillowDragon]

I am in australia at the moment on an extended trip, and i was only talking yesterday about how i would not mind living here one day.
If i ever do, and i do take up mice while i am down here, then i would have bo qualms about breeding the way i do in the UK and working towards producing a more typey animal with the use of carefully planned inbreeding. I will either be hated in the fancy, or people will want my stock... Lol

What im saying is basically, if you want to breed your animals in any way you choose, aslong as you know the risks and take responsibity for that, then you shouldnt let what other people think stop you. You dont have to tell people your practices if you dont want, which would obviously mean you would need to stop producing pedigrees if you are inbreeding and dont want people to know it... But how is the fancy in aus going to progress to the standard of the rest of the world if you dont adopt thier practices?

K xx

 

[icedmice]

Fancy in Australia at the moment ... your standard pet typed. Recently seen improvements in siamese shading and I was excited to see black on a toenail on one of my black bucks.
We don't have splashed, merle, extreme black, satin, abyssinian, resessive red, angora, white bellied agouti, tricolours, manx is inherited recessively and our white spots are so muddled together we really don't know what markings we truely have, standards are just copied from NMC standards. I've found a different marking that breeds consistantly, it's very much like dutch but closer to the rabbit in marking.

I'd love a fancier to focus on PEW, I've got my blacks. So few have the fundamental varieties, nearly all have longhair/rex ... I only have longhair and rex in my pet line.

OOOOOh I'd be thrilled for you to be part of the fancy!!!
You wouldn't be hated by me . But you may not like our rat and mouse clubs at first.

At this stage in the fancy pedigrees do keep things a little neater. In 5 years time they probably won't be necessary because I will have established most lines to a point where they are breeding with consistancy and program scheduals will be more rigid, lines will be traceable without a pedigree.

To be honest I think the fancy here needs the influence of an exhibitor that shows at your standards.

 

[wildrose]

Wow, I was just thinking about asking this! :lol: I'm really waffling right now between keeping pedigrees or not.

 

[WillowDragon]

Quite frankly, if it was a case of working towards type, concentrating on colour aswell would be too much at this stage, so PEW would be the best option!
It would take brutal selection though.

K xx

 

[moustress]

I used to keep extensive records of all births, pairings and deaths as well as other health related things. I've gotten past the point of needing information on health, as I've pared out the nasty recessives, for the most part. I rarely see any congenitally unfit individuals in any litter, for which I am very glad. I do keep records of pairings since I have a lot of heterozygous things in my meeces, and while I like surprises, I don't want to pair meeces that aren't going to give me the things I want out of them.

I think that one good thing about the awful accident last December is that the ones that survived seem to be very hardy and produce really healthy offspring. The older ones have some health issues, but I am amazed that the males were still fertile after what they went through.
'