[mouseling]

Hi all

I am new here, introduced myself in the relevent section, and I need advice on which variety would be good to start off with. I love Black Eyed Creams to look at but know nothing about genetics yet. I also like the rump whites and bandeds in black and chocolate. Do you get cream rump whites and bandeds? I gather marked breeds are not good for beginners???

I have kept and bred many species but not mice, so though some knowledge about breeding is universal I know each species has very specific do's and don'ts so could someone point me in the direction of a source of info re. genetics and lethals please? And an in depth source about breeding practices.

I need to learn more about the whole culling thing, as I would want to know about the most humane and least violent ways and decide if the hobby is right for me.

Plus any tips on things like in hindsight, What you wouldnt do if starting over setting up as a breeder//exhibitor...I want to find loads out and not rush in to this.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[SarahC]

black eyed creams are a good variety and pews are also produced from these so you get two for one .Bandeds are not really very viable as an exhibition variety,ones that would be showable would be hard to come by.Rumpwhites have all the drawbacks that the rest of the marked mice have but if you like them they can be contenders.No marked mouse would be any good in cream,there would be little or no contrast between the cream and white.Cream in mice is very pale .Marked mice breeding will produce a lot of extra mice which will mean more culling.Does will probably be reasonably easy to home but good homes for bucks will run out rapidly.On the plus side they can be culled at 4 or 5 days when the markings come through which you may find easier than furry ones.

 

[mouseling]

thanks Sarah, I have been doing lots of searching and reading the past couple of days. I wondered what your thoughts on a plan to use creams and pew's with siamese. I like what I hear about the size and type of the PEW and the BE creams and they himi/siamese markings are simply stunning.

Now would there be any difficulty sexing these vareties at 4 days old? Only I would not be able to keep bucks. However I have a friend with snakes so at least there would be a purpose to their birth...sounds awful, but something I will deal with.

Would the paler shades make sexing easier?

Do you know any websites with more info about be creams, pew, siamese, himid, or breeders who are knowledgeable with these varieties who would be encouraging of a beginner?

Thanks

 

[Oakelm]

Hello mouseling

Im new to show mice too, except I have gone down the difficult route of rumpwhites, purely because I like them so much. I have enough room (purpose built mouse shed) to have a self variety too so looking into what I exactly want before buying any. I am going to a few shows to have a look at the show mice and to help make my mind up before I actually attempt to show anything myself
A couple of websites that have helped me so far are
http://www.fancymice.info/
http://www.hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/essentials.html
And if you become a member of the national mouse club http://www.thenationalmouseclub.co.uk/ they send through info on the standards and a year book, etc(Just waiting for mine to come through)

Edit to add about sexing, I find it tricky to sex really early on, but when they get to about a week old its a lot easier as you start to see nipples on the girls. But im getting better at sexing super early on, like everything takes practice, but make sure you know who is who at 3 weeks because then for some reason I really cant tell unless they have markings to give them away. So im purposefully thinning to only have one sex in the litter to make it easier.

 

[mouseling]

thanks Emma, those links look really good at first glance.

I am having some difficulty in my head over the method of culling and it seems to older they get the harder it will be. I think I will have to chat to someone about it.

 

[Cait]

Hi

You don't want to put creams into siamese because the ce gene may ruin the points (it is a dilution gene). A genuine albino (c/c) is compatible with siamese to create himalayans. Siamese and himalayans can be difficult due to their moults, which can render a mouse unshowable. Himalayans also have trouble with the points being too pale or the body colour not white enough, and there isn't much decent stock around to start you off - whereas siamese would be more easily available. The best outcross to siamese if the points are failing is a black, because they are actually black based, not chocolate based as you might think from looking at them. Adding the chocolate gene actually makes the points paler.

As for sexing the babies, it can be done from birth and the colour of the mouse does not affect how easy this is. All it takes is a little practise

 

[mouseling]

Thanks Mousebreeder, a kind person pm'd me to and gave me more information about creams, pews and siamese breeding too, so that was very helpful

I gather then that BEC and PEW would be nice varieties to breed with the intention of exhibiting and the siamese/himi route would be a much bumpier ride!

I was wondering then what people might think about my possbile idea of using some of the PEW (produced from BEC x BEC matings) as an outcross to the siamese with the intention of producing some himi's. Being that if I made PEW;'s from BECs they would be true albinos...is that correct? and that is what you need to use with Siamese for Himis.

I perhaps wouldnt worry about exhibiting the himis or the siamese for the forseeable future but it would be nice to keep some and look at improving them (according to type) over the longer term. Whilst I enjoy the BEC as varieties to actually show.

Do people ever do this sort of thing....be serious about a main variety and then keep other varieties to work on and enjoy just because you love them. I suppose any breeding with whatever variety I take up in the end will be with the aim of exhibiting eventually, just I could take my time with Siamese and Himis...I hope people get what I am trying to say.

 

[Cait]

Yes people do have a main variety and other varieties they work on. Otherwise we would have lost some rarer/more difficult varieties completely! If you get a 'PEW' from creams genetically it may be ce/ce, c/ce or c/c. Only the last one is a true albino, the others are PE creams. The problem with that is that they look the same, so there's no way to know which you have by appearance. However I do believe that most if not all PEWs shown are genetically PE creams selected for paleness.

 

[mouseling]

If you get a 'PEW' from creams genetically it may be ce/ce, c/ce or c/c. Only the last one is a true albino, the others are PE creams. The problem with that is that they look the same, so there's no way to know which you have by appearance. However I do believe that most if not all PEWs shown are genetically PE creams selected for paleness.

So PEW's produced from BEC's are suitable to use with Siamese to produce Himilayans then?

Also what sort of numbers of mice would be a reasonable amount to keep to have some level of the hobby being viable to actually have stock to show. I would probably be wanting to show regualaly March to September and then the odd show over the winter perhaps every other month, as I show my chinchillas September to March.

Right now, I have space for 6 trio RUB's plus 6 larger tubs (8 mice each) this could increase later on if I get really into it, but for now that is what I know is managable for the forseeable.

Does this sound reasonable?

 

[Cait]

I make that 66 mice? You could do both creams and PEWs in that but not siamese/himmy as well. I say this because the creams and PEWs can be mixed with each other more so than the others. You'd also have to count out many siamese in that number due to moult, more so than creams and PEWs.

 

[mouseling]

I make that 66 mice? You could do both creams and PEWs in that but not siamese/himmy as well. I say this because the creams and PEWs can be mixed with each other more so than the others. You'd also have to count out many siamese in that number due to moult, more so than creams and PEWs.

Thanks for the help there.

I am not worried about showing the Siamese/Himi's for the foreseeable..therefore the moulting issue is not important to me. I might just have to have some Siamese/himis in the shed to look at then!

So would you recommend two trios of cream to start off with? I think I have read that some where ...not keeping all your eggs in one basket.

If so should they come from 2 different breeders or could be from 1 breeder as long as they are 2 seperate lines?

 

[Cait]

I'd say 2 breeders personally.