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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today when I was doing my mouse rounds I found these strange coloured mice!! Well strange to me :lol:
Not had this colour crop up before, at first I thought maybe dove but they have black eyes :?
Any suggestions?
By the way Mum is Choc tan broken and dad is Cinnamon broken. I took a couple pics, let me know what you guys think :D



Cheers xx
 

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no but you could breed them bigger lol

on another note there tails are pink strange coz my lilacs is the same as his body. these look very light too unless its the flash i'd be horribly temped to say these are a brocken and self silver only very dark
 

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yeah you choose the biggest typest out of the litter and breed them together, if you have a show type choc you can also out cross and quicken it up though it can be tricky getting the colour back and will prob take a few gens
 

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you can get black eyed silver so i was told by willow. but because of the choc parent i'm going to say lilac very pale lilac
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I was thinking about introducing my broken gene to my show mice. If I put a broken pet doe to a self show buck and a broken pet buck to a show self doe then breed the offspring to each other they will all be broken....i think?
 

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Why is it that I have been trying to breed for lilac for nearly a year now and still haven't got any... and people keep having it crop up by accident??? :shock:

P.S And I agree with Jack... don't be messing up the show lines (Or at least I wouldn't)... if you truely feel the need to experiment (I know the feeling) then do as a very small side thing, maybe one litter. And use a show buck, not the does.

W xx
 

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awww poor willow in all fairness willow they are pet type lol you can have my buck if you like.
 

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WillowDragon said:
Why is it that I have been trying to breed for lilac for nearly a year now and still haven't got any... and people keep having it crop up by accident??? :shock:

P.S And I agree with Jack... don't be messing up the show lines (Or at least I wouldn't)... if you truely feel the need to experiment (I know the feeling) then do as a very small side thing, maybe one litter. And use a show buck, not the does.

W xx
It's Murphy's law, really. The same thing has happened to me. In the 2ish years I've been trying to get my true-breeding chinchillas on the ground, I've not gotten a single mouse who was Aw/Aw cch/cch. I've gotten Aw/a, Aw/A, and a/a, all with various combinations of cch/cch or cch/c, but never the "right" combination...yet. lol

I'm so glad I didn't start out with at, because would have caused even more disappointment! :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Honestly why?.....well our collection of snakes are growing and to be honest the bigger the mice the better. Most of our snakes eat adult pet shop mice. Otherwise it means breeding more rats and using their young pups, and these take much longer than mice. My plan is eventually to have just show mice because they are bigger so gradually all the pet ones will go. But I really love my moo moo mice and I don't know of anyone who breeds show broken. So I guess this was my solution :)
 

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If you want to breed broken show mice, I'd suggest getting some broken show mice, not trying to create them. This is a variety that requires having many individual animals on hand so maybe that would be a good idea considering the snake? I don't mean this to sound harsh, but have you actually seen broken show mice? The term "broken" is used all the time on forums, and people think mice like those you've posted pictures of are "broken," but they're really not. They're just piebald. Broken show mice have spots which are more spread out, more defined, and less "muddy" than what you see in petstore mice. The NMC describes them as such "should not have either Dutch cheeks, saddle or any markings which may be considered evenly placed...spots or patches should be well distributed all over the body and head, the more uniform in size, the better...must be a spot or patch on one side of the nose...broken marked mouse without a nose spot must be disqualified...nose spot defined as a spot on one side only of the nose, including the whisker bed." As you see this is pretty exact and not what most people call "broken." To introduce something like recessive white spotting into a line of show mice would be a tragedy against the show mice, in my humble opinion. Of course, I am biased. :p

Edit: I had suggested searching the forum for "broken" but it appears it's a too-common word. I found a picture of a show broken (via a modified search) here: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2802&p=21750&hilit=broke*+variety#p21750

You won't get that if you cross a petstore broken with a show mouse. You'll get show mice who have been ruined. I think by the nature of this place having a lot of show breeders you'll be discouraged but at the end of the day they're your mice and it's up to you. If you do cross them, you'll have to post pictures and let us see what happens! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Okey dokey....
I am not that interested in breeding show brokens as you probably only get 1 mouse out of 500 suitable for show! That's a lot of mice.
At the moment one of my show varieties I am working on is Rumpwhite which is quite enough marked madness for me thanks :D
This provides enough unshowable excess for food but also provides a goal to work for.
By the way could you explain piebald, I have heard people use this term and would like to understand the difference. Actually while you are at it could you explain the different types of markings like piebald, varigated, splashed etc..all gets a bit confusing :)
 

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Yes, of course! I love explaining stuff! :p

Piebald (or "pied") is the general term for white spots on an animal. There are piebald mice, rats, robins, snakes, horses, and even people. All animals with white spotting can be called "piebald." This Wikipedia page gives a brief overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piebald When in doubt, it's safe to say a mouse with white spots is piebald.

Broken, Even, Variegated, Rumpwhite, Belted, Banded (and perhaps others I've forgotten!) are specific terms for white spotting laid out in the standards of mouse clubs. They are all used to say how a mouse is supposed to look.

Genetically, Broken and Even are usually both s/s. This is the most variable kind of white spotting, as it can show up as just one unpigmented foot, or an entirely white mouse.

Variegated, as laid out for the show standards, is a mouse whose white hairs are more interspersed. I don't breed marked varieties, but it is my understanding that variegated comes in "show variegated" and "what most people call variegated but which is not, really" as well. The same might be true for banded, belted, and rumpwhite but I don't know that for sure.

The patterns of white spotting have different modes of inheritance. Some are dominant, some are recessive. One (either belted or banded, I can't remember) is dominant with incomplete penetrance, and variegated is a homozygous lethal dominant.

To get back to the original question, people seem to use "broken" to mean "erratically-placed white spotting which does not fall into any of the other spotting categories," but that's not what's meant for people who breed broken for show. I personally never liked the term. I think it makes mice sound like they are somehow damaged or in need of an arm cast. :p
 

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I have to admit to getting a little annoyed when I see a white marked mouse and people called it varigated, because its clearly not.

But I guess calling it varigated is nicer sounding than calling it a 'Lethal White' mouse... so I can understand it. hehehehe

W xx

*edit*
Go on here... it has a picture of what a varigated mouse should look like when bred for show =o)

http://www.thenationalmouseclub.co.uk/marked.php#thumb
 
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