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Sorry guys, I dont want to be mean or anything, but i totally disagree with culling. But this might be because I am 17! Will i do it when im older? I dont think so.

I know why people cull but as far as im concerned if I have babies that need culling, I wait til they are old enough and then I sell them or give them to a pet shop!!!

I cant sit there and look at those babies and then kill them!!! :oops: I dont see how we have the right to decide what lives and what dies, just because they are boys or there is something wrong with it like line under or markings wrong doesnt mean it should die.

Please try understand this from my point of view. People also cull because they want to get the size more on the mice and I understand that but I have never culled and I have done well with my mice at shows!!!

Please tell me your sides,
Thanks for taking the time to read this,
Michael
 

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I'm not getting into what's right or ethical, but from pure practicality I believe culling is a good thing.

Since I've been breeding:
- I've bred a total of 112 bucks and 59 does
- I've sold a total of 4 pet does and 0 pet bucks

There's no way I can house 112 single bucks and no petshops around me will take home-bred animals.

Sarah xxx
 

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Michael N said:
I know why people cull but as far as im concerned if I have babies that need culling, I wait til they are old enough and then I sell them or give them to a pet shop!!!
My first thought was this sentence shows you are forgetting a big part of why people cull, it doesnt give the full picture. If you waited until the babies were old enough to "go to the pet shop" it would be too late anyway. Babies are culled to help the ones that remain grow big, healthy and strong, aswell as being homed safely (Surely going to a pet shop isn't ideal in terms of homing) I know you said you understand doing it for size, which is good, but it's also for health

Once you domesticate a prey animal like a mouse you have to then take over the role of nature as best as possible. Especially considering our fancy mice have bigger litters. It's our responsibility not to leave mothers with more pups than they can cope with or raise properly. It is better that there are less healthy, strong and happy mice than a lot of weakling miserable ones. And trust me, that would and does happen when you just leave them to it. This would then weaken all fancy mice in the long run. Out in nature not all babies ever born make it, and that is for a good reason, both in terms of population control and health concern

Regarding older animals, personally we apply the same policy usually. If a mouse is suffering with no cure we will cull (or euthanise) That is because in nature that mouse would be taken by a predator to end its suffering. Suffering for long periods isnt usual for mice

I'm a huge animal rights advocate and fully believe in treating all animals as fairly and ethically as possible. Honestly, before I understood culling better I felt exactly the same as you. As compassionate beings it is a natural knee jerk reaction. However, sometimes logic wins out. It is best for the mice when you zoom out and look at the bigger picture

I have to say though, I wouldn't cull based on markings or colour alone with no other reason, I couldn't do it myself. To me, that is culling for OUR sake rather than the mice. We haven't had to cull any pinkies yet and I do think the only time we would is if a mother was left with too many to raise as big healthy mice otherwise or there were too many bucks to get decent homes for

Thanks for sharing your views. I hope I made sense
 

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I don't like the idea of killing something for no reason more than the next person, but as long as it's done humanely, I would rather a mouse be bumped off this mortal coil than go to a pet shop and suffer under the hands of a not-so-experienced mouse owner.
 

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Hmm, I think I agree with Michael.

I won't be breeding for colours/shows/markings/size , And I would only breed on a small scale, But I understand that if I was a large breeder that I would have to cull.

I think it comes down to personal preference :cool:
 

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i mainly cull for health reasons. in 2 recent litters of mine, there were 11 babies and 12 babies. that is way to many babies for them all to be equally healthy. at day 10 there were unhealthy babies that were about half the size of the healthy looking ones. in the litter with 11 there were 4 tiny babies and in the litter of 12 there were 5. and these werent runts, they were all born the same size. i culled so that the remaining babies could continue to grow and be healthy. i have another litter of 12 right now and there is no doubt in my mind that i will cull again.

i dont know if you have had any large litters but i believe culling is necessary. its sad to see unhealthy babies. mine were underdeveloped and for all i know they could've ended up dying very young.

and there is one part of your argument that i dont understand, you say "I dont see how we have the right to decide what lives and what dies", but yet as a breeder you are forcing mice to get pregnant and give birth. and that is creating life. because of that it is your responsibilty to do all that you can to make healthy mice. and in my opinion, i think it would be irresposible to have large litters and not cull the unhealthy ones

thats all just my opinion of course ;)
 

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Just wanted to say This is a great debate! and it makes me proud to be a member of such an honest, but respectful forum

glad to see it kept friendly and on the issue; better than the priministerial debates we have been subjected to in britain recently!

:)
 

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In the United States you cannot give mice to a pet store because live feeding is legal here. Mice are usually sold as loss leaders and are more-or-less dispensable. The stores make their money on food or supplies.

For me, culling is also not about morals or ethics, but about practicality. It's about good husbandry, not what is morally right or wrong. After you cull a couple litters and see the difference it makes, the next ones are easier.

Of course the world would be nice if nobody ever had to die anything for any reason, but that's just now how it works in nature or in our mouse rooms.
 

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At first, I didnt cull,but after watching my doe struggle with 16 babies, Iknew then that it was for the best, so after that I stsrted culling my larger litters, but now Ive realized that its good to cull on smaller litters.

Culling is helpful for both the doe and the owner. I would rather have a small litter of 4 healthy babies, then a large litter of 10 with unhealthy babies.
 

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I always generally reduce my litters to 4 or 5 babies depending on thier markings and gender. Michael obviously is a successful exhibitor without the need to cull. I think if I was confident in being able to raise healthy babies and rehome all of the mice I produced then I wouldnt cull either, however litters Ive left unreduced are sicklier and smaller with less chance of survival into adulthood let alone a chance of being good enough quality to show. Maybe it depends on the variety of mouse or the genetic lines maternal instinct which affects a mouses ability to raise larger litters.
 

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I am a feeder breeder, so in a way you can say that I breed to cull. My method of culling is different from others, as I use a snake instead of something else. When I first began breeding to feed, my mom couldn't understand how I could raise babies and then watch them be eaten. My snake is a ball python, so I wait until 3-4 weeks old to start feeding. In my view, it's a bit like raising a pig or cow for slaughter. But at least this way, I know that the babies recieve good care, and because I am looking to breed the colors I like, I can choose to keep some of the babies with good markings. I've had experiances where some of the litter was very unhealthy, and in that case, I feed those first to let the healthier ones live. But I've learned that sometimes I need to cull even before I'm ready to feed, because I know the babies won't live to weaning/feeding anyway. I don't breed a lot of mice at one time; I breed as many as my snake and my friend's snake can eat.

I love my mice. The keepers have names and I play with them every day. I even play with the babies, and sometimes I do become too attached to babies to feed them. But I moniter their health carefully, and that is my primary goal in breeding, even before the colors I like.
 

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As i have said in earlier posts i do not cull at the pinkie stage but do cull later on. I read other posts and hear about larger litters being sickly and i don't really understand it i have does raise 12 babies with ease, No problems no sickness and all fat healthy babys and i am going to guess its down to feeding as thats the only thing you can change and make better for your animals. I cull when i need to as i can not house all the bucks i have, i advertise in my local pet stores and on preloved as well as here about excess mice but if i have a box of buck i no longer require i do "dispose" of them. I try to rehome them as i give out a caresheet and make people bring the mouses new house around for me to look at and get kids to come around so i can show them how to hold them properly so its not like i don't care which people have said to me before.

People will always have different views on culling and i find it very interesting read about them all. And its all in a none offenese manner, go forum! yay!
 

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For me, the ONLY reason i will cull, is if the babies are sick, or won't make it. Often in a large litter where the runt is suffering by not being able to feed or fight for milk against it's siblings, to me it is kinder, as opposed to letting it die of starvation.

ALL of my babies are intended as pet quality mice. I have a high turn over of mice, and i supply local pet shops so that for once they can sell mice that are tame to both adults and children.

I have to say though, i don't fully agree with some that show mice and cull the ones that they feel wouldn't make the grade. It would be like having twins and killing the not so attractive one surely?
 

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To cull or not to cull is always the question... and I love this forum for the fact that we can feel comfortable questioning it without the fear of being lynched!

'Why don't you just give them to a Pet Shop?!' - This is all very well and good if you have a pet shop near you that 1) You trust, and 2) Will take the mice!
And even then, how are you sure that your mice are going to a decent home and not being live fed to a snake or slowly killed through neglect? You can't.
I want all the people who give thier surplus stock to a pet shop to stop and think for a moment... if that petshop stopped taking mice, and thier were no others around you, what would you do? Stop breeding? Or start culling?
 

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I rarely venture in here because I have fully come to terms with culling as a necessity for me.It would be completely impossible to keep all the mice I breed and I prefer to know the end of them as a pose to rehoming.All of my culls(except ill ones) are sold on as reptile or bird of prey food and myself and Cait often club together to be able to meet demand for frozen mice.Demand is high for frozen mice that have been well cared for instead of intensively farmed.My ferrets also enjoy a diet of fresh culled mice.
 

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I myself have given culled mice to a local reptile shop, but they recently started asking me for live mice and got an attitude when i refused. So i am in the process of looking for another one.
All my culled babies go to a friend for free though, saves her alot of money!
 

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I also provide mice for pet homes, they come with a care pack and your mouse of course.

I am as careful as possible with whom I select from taking our rodents. Having people meet me also gives people the chance to call back if they need support.
Nevertheless, no matter how careful I am, there is always the risk one could slip through to a mass breeder. Some mass breeders are very clever and manipulative to get what they want.

There would be an even greater risk if it was sent to a pet store because you have NO control over who gets them and you have no idea where they've gone. For all you know they could fall into the hands of a mass breeder, or an inexperienced and clumsy child. A pet store, no matter how well run, will not sacrifice the chance of making a profit over the wellfare of the animal.
They won't make much of a profit turning people away, it wouldn't be a very sucessful business if that was the case.

Culling is a taboo word in the Australian fancy....
I'm restricted by the clubs code of ethics. That doesn't mean to say I personally believe it's unethical.
I have a great deal of respect for people that do it, I understand it's a difficult and heartbreaking practice. You need to put the welfare of the animal before you own emotions.
 
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