How do I produce the nicest yellows with what I have?

1707 Views 14 Replies 4 Participants Last post by dwellsinshells, May 2, 2011

dwellsinshells

Discussion Starter · Apr 28, 2011

I have a lovely yellow female. She went through a sooty phase but then brightened up again. Her babies all turned out almost exactly her shade of buttery yellow, with the exception of a few agouti babies. I bred her to my chocolate male to produce those ones, but she is too old to breed again safely. I was wondering who to breed her babies to if I want to have a nice yellow line eventually.

I have an unrelated young male who is a more dark faded yellow and originally appeared to have a slightly silvery base. I don't know his parentage because he was a rescue.

I got a second male out of one of my other litters, also unrelated, who is a really rich reddish yellow. He came from my two silvers, so I don't know if he's genetically compatible, but he definitely has a nice color. He also has red eyes, whereas all my other yellows have black eyes.

The rest of my options are a slew of chocolates who are related through my male, the chocolate male himself, and the actual brothers from the yellow litter.

What would you do? These are only pet quality mice, obviously, but I appear to be the only pet breeder in the area and people really like the yellows, so I would like to produce the nicest ones I can.

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tinyhartmouseries

· #2 · Apr 28, 2011

If I were you I would probably breed back to the chocolate male father to give the color a good check and to double the genes, and then work with the offspring....You are doing the right thing in using chocolate, not black to breed these guys, but I'd breed out the agouti if possible, that can lead to ticking or banding of the yellow hairs.

As long as you have a homozygous black eyed doe, you should be able to breed to the red eye buck and get mainly black eyed babies, as it is dominant. I wouldn't breed to anything with a "Base" of another color, as it will take several generations to get rid of. I hope this is a little helpful. I don't work with yellow TOO often so perhaps someone else can weigh in as well.

They are sure cute! And very nice color!!

dwellsinshells

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 29, 2011

Thanks. So you think I shouldn't breed them brother to sister at all? I was thinking about doing two separate breedings, one female to the dark gold unrelated male, and one to her brother, but you think I should breed the second one to the father instead? I don't mind doing so, he produces really pretty babies, and that clutch would be longhaired too, which would be nice.

dwellsinshells

Discussion Starter · #4 · Apr 29, 2011

And I will eliminate the silvery gold male entirely from my breeding program. He's cute and all, but he doesn't match anybody nicely, and I'm too fond of the big fat pups my chocolate male produces.

dwellsinshells

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 29, 2011

Oh, and sorry I have another question. That sooty phase she went through, is that unavoidable with gold mice, or is it something I should watch for and try to breed out?

HemlockStud

· #6 · Apr 29, 2011

My advice would be to make your yellows A/A b/b e/e or in other words a recessive yellow that is cinnamon(chocolate agouti) underneath. The agouti and the chocolate will both help with the colouring. Then just select for the mice with the clearest/darkest colours of what you desire, but be sure to avoid mice that go through bad moults or develop dark ticking on the backs.

tinyhartmouseries

· #7 · Apr 29, 2011

My yellow went through a "sooty" phase but she was black based....bad but she was also a little bit of a shocker!!!
I suppose you could breed sister to brother though, I've got back breeding on the mind so I didn't hit on that, you are right to get that silvery one out of your program too, he'd cause a color mess, cute as though he may be on his own right.
Stephen, cinni agouti??? interesting.....

HemlockStud

· #8 · Apr 29, 2011

tinyhartmouseries said:
My yellow went through a "sooty" phase but she was black based....bad but she was also a little bit of a shocker!!!

When I was breeding pet types I focused on RY, and I noticed my really sooty mice were always black based, but the agouti or chocolate ones had better color and less sooty appearance.

moustress

· #9 · Apr 29, 2011

My agouti/RY crosses have resulted in a very deep concentrated orange on my argente babies. They are so orange they look like deep fawn, with the base blue hidden behind the orange so completely that I need to look really hard to see see it, even when I riffle the fur to show the undercoat. I think the argente, or maybe one with that same color, and better looks, would be the way to go.

And I also have had the same results with black based RY: very sooty when little, lightening and brightening up bit by bit until they are a nice clear bronzy orange at around six months of age. Lovely!

dwellsinshells

Discussion Starter · #10 · Apr 29, 2011

Ok, so I should cross a female back to the chocolate father, and then what would you suggest? Should I be worried about inbreeding and introduce new blood if I can?

HemlockStud

· #11 · Apr 29, 2011

dwellsinshells said:
Ok, so I should cross a female back to the chocolate father, and then what would you suggest? Should I be worried about inbreeding and introduce new blood if I can?

You could cross the female back to the father, yes. That would make sure that the offspring are chocolate based yellows. And dont worry about inbreeding, just breed the best mice together. I would inbreed and only outcross if a problem appears or there is another line that will benefit yours.

moustress

· #12 · Apr 29, 2011

If you are planning for a long term, say 18 mo. to 2 yrs., my suggestion would be to breedj two of the young does, one to the father, the other to the argente(that's almost certainly what that that pale orange with the silver/blue base is). that way you will have two lines that share only the buck's genes and can cross between the two groups. Or cross back to the sire of the two groups. Of course, you'd end up with a lot of little mousies...which I wouldn't consider a problem...how's 'bout you?

Just read HS's posting...it guess it depends on how firm the line is as far as heritage. If you have lines that are proven then inbreeding would work just fine. If they are pet store stock, that would make a big difference.

HemlockStud

· #13 · Apr 29, 2011

I can agree to a degree moustress, but I think if you are working with pet store stock inbreeding is even more important. That way any problems in the mice arise very fast, there is nothing worse than having an entire stud full of mice with a recessive genetic disease that decides to rear its ugly head in the future when you do choose to inbreed and you have many mice from that line needing to be culled. Thats just my two cents though.

moustress

· #14 · Apr 30, 2011

Yes, there is that; provoke the worst to pop up right away.

dwellsinshells

Discussion Starter · #15 · May 2, 2011

Interesting, ok. These are definitely pet store stock since I have to get all my mice out of the feeder bins in order to get any variety. I will just breed two females as suggested, since I always have a demand for those yellow mice. I hope nothing really nasty pops up from the inbreeding, but if it does at least I'll know.

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