Himalayan, Dutch and Abyssinian at Blackthorn Stud

I thought that Dutch might be modified spotting too but no, I've test bred it with normal recessive spotted pet shop patchy mice. I've never heard of Irish spotting.

I don't want to sound rude (because I really don't mean to be) but I've never seen pictures of any mice that have actually been 'improved' in America (ETA: except for NuedaiMice's blacks, they look better every time). Up until recently I think a general lack of consistancy and discipline in breeding American mice has prevailed and as a result breeders have got nowhere. The best mice have been imported from us. I do think that is changing though now that there are more people interested in doing it properly, and I expect a lot of improvement in the future.

I'm not saying that trying to breed Dutch out of recessive spotted piebalds will be easy or quick, just that you can do it

Sarah xxx

SarahY said:

I thought that Dutch might be modified spotting too but no, I've test bred it with normal recessive spotted pet shop patchy mice. I've never heard of Irish spotting.

I don't want to sound rude (because I really don't mean to be) but I've never seen pictures of any mice that have actually been 'improved' in America (ETA: except for NuedaiMice's blacks, they look better every time). Up until recently I think a general lack of consistancy and discipline in breeding American mice has prevailed and as a result breeders have got nowhere. The best mice have been imported from us. I do think that is changing though now that there are more people interested in doing it properly, and I expect a lot of improvement in the future.

I'm not saying that trying to breed Dutch out of recessive spotted piebalds will be easy or quick, just that you can do it

Sarah xxx

Click to expand...

Irish spotting at least over here is usually a mouse that has a head spot/blaze, a belly spot, and a marked tail. So sort of similar to your herefords over there and I think it is the same gene or k-factors making the markings. Irish spotting isnt really standardized here though, its just a nuisance in anyone breeding brokens.

I can whole heartedly agree on the fact that mice are rarely improved over here! There are very few show breeders and we are far spread. I am currently breeding creams, PEWs, and champagne(all one line) and I originally only was able to get show bucks and so had to outcross to pet type does. Now three generations down the line of inbreeding back I am getting very close to regaining full type but it has been hard work. A good learning experience overall though. I would like to get a hold of and improve hairless and sex linked brindles(in red or fawn) to show type, but those are far off goals and I still need to get the genes. It is definitely a struggle breeding nice mice over here, and it is still largely a pet based hobby but myself and others would like to try and change that in the coming years.

Thank you, Sarah for your compliment on my blacks.

I would like to point out that even those of us making large improvements are using some UK influenced lines.

Even my own lines have UK influence in them. There is hardly a single U.S. breeder who does not have stock that traces back to a UK imported line at some point. Its just the degree to which the line has been out crossed to pet store stock and the degree of selection to bring back the type from those UK lines that breeders use. None of my blacks are related to UK descended blacks, to my knowledge, but they do have lineage somewhere in their past (probably 20 or more generations back) where someone crossed the ocean.

I am probably the only one who has the least amount of UK derived stock in the U.S. Hemlock has sent me some of his mice recently, so I will be crossing them into some of my lines. But I am keeping them clear of my blacks for now, as those particular lines have a lot of light modifiers - not something I want to breed into darker mice.

I am trying for Dutch in a separate line... but Broken is holding my interest more. I do have a LOT of "almost Dutch" mice. Helmets and butt spots...