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Every hereford I've ever seen has been tiny. Not just small like is common to most marked varieties, but even smaller than that. This is one fault, though not related to color or markings per se.
Posts by Jack Garcia
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If any mice could be considered a different breed in the sense that dogs and cats (and rabbits) have breeds, I think Dutch would be the best contender.
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Well, yes and no (and maybe, lol). There's one person in England (whose name unfortunately escapes me) who I talked to last year who insists that both hereford and Dutch are separate alleles from (though maybe related to) recessive white spotting. He observed that if he crosses a Dutch to a self, he gets (poorly-marked) Dutch in the first back-cross to the Dutch parent.
What I suspect might have happened is that both Dutch and hereford are variations on recessive white spotting but that, over time, somewhere, many or all of the modifiers have become linked and are inherited together usually, which would cause (poor) Dutch mice in the second generation after an outcross.
This is my own theory, though DNA testing could prove it one way or the other, if anybody wanted to test it.
What I suspect might have happened is that both Dutch and hereford are variations on recessive white spotting but that, over time, somewhere, many or all of the modifiers have become linked and are inherited together usually, which would cause (poor) Dutch mice in the second generation after an outcross.
This is my own theory, though DNA testing could prove it one way or the other, if anybody wanted to test it.
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We know for sure that white mouse markings occur on the Bt, W, Rw, and S loci, so it wouldn't surprise me if Dutch and/or hereford occurred on any of those, or on another locus entirely, assuming they're not identical or related to s/s, as they may be.
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I remember that. Hmm...I found whatever he was saying to be confusing, though, to be honest. 
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I love Roland. I've spoken with him on the phone and we have many of the same friends "in real life," and many of the same interests, but I must say between my strong Southern accent and his German one, communication can be difficult. He's a great guy, though.
He's a great guy, though.
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Thanks, Silvia. That makes sense.
Also, I've found this page, which contends (as do you and other hereford breeders) that hereford is not a part of the "s-series" of mouse mutations at all:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/tbde3n3e5e8xxa3c/
Likening mouse genetics to dog genetics can be helpful, but only up to a point, as we've seen!
Also, I've found this page, which contends (as do you and other hereford breeders) that hereford is not a part of the "s-series" of mouse mutations at all:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/tbde3n3e5e8xxa3c/
Likening mouse genetics to dog genetics can be helpful, but only up to a point, as we've seen!
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I agree that it is interesting that a lot of breeders have interest in the colors themselves but don't bother to understand how they actually come about. To be fair, you don't need to know how pigment is formed on the molecular level to breed winning mice, but it does help. It's easy to draw parallels with dogs, and very helpful at times, but it doesn't always correlate directly. At least, I think that's what you mean...hehe.tipex said:
I think the pheomelanins you're talking about are largely absent in US mice, whether tan, red, or argente. That's one reason I imported the Ay/A mice: so that more people could have access to the modifiers which make red fur red instead of yellow. One person is trying to improve the red on black tans by outcrossing to an agouti from the reds (who presumably has all the same pheomelanin modifiers), and then back-crossing, keeping only the tan babies from each pairing. It will be interesting to see the results and I will make her post pictures.
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I know. Maybe I'm being too generous with American breeders. What I meant was that if you have a poor tan (at/at for example) and you breed it consistently with a good red (Ay/A), you will improve the red bellies significantly because the modifiers for red fur are already there.
It's a shame that so many people don't know (or don't care) about the proper way to make varieties look their best! Sometimes it is a matter of not having the resources and that's understandable, but all too often people do have the resources and they choose to ruin their mice by crossing varieties which should never be crossed. The damage done is much harder to reverse than it is to cause.
For example, this is a picture of a white-bellied chinchilla (genotype: Aw/aw cch/c U/u) who was crossed to a himalayan a few generations ago:
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He is the closest thing to "pet-typed" that I have, and he has produced babies of vastly different quality due to his mixed-ancestry. If his great great grandmother (from a respected English chinchilla breeder) had never been bred to a US petstore mouse, he could have been a stellar example of chinchilla. As it is now, I am working on improving his descendants' type as well as solidifying a line of true-breeding mice who are Aw/Aw cch/cch Fz/Fz u/u. It will take me at least three or four more years to come close to this goal, yet it only took one night of mouse passion (and one bad decision from a breeder) to lead to this! Very frustrating!
Ok, I'm done preaching to the choir! :lol:
What I meant was that if you have a poor tan (at/at for example) and you breed it consistently with a good red (Ay/A), you will improve the red bellies significantly because the modifiers for red fur are already there.It's a shame that so many people don't know (or don't care) about the proper way to make varieties look their best! Sometimes it is a matter of not having the resources and that's understandable, but all too often people do have the resources and they choose to ruin their mice by crossing varieties which should never be crossed. The damage done is much harder to reverse than it is to cause.
For example, this is a picture of a white-bellied chinchilla (genotype: Aw/aw cch/c U/u) who was crossed to a himalayan a few generations ago:
He is the closest thing to "pet-typed" that I have, and he has produced babies of vastly different quality due to his mixed-ancestry. If his great great grandmother (from a respected English chinchilla breeder) had never been bred to a US petstore mouse, he could have been a stellar example of chinchilla. As it is now, I am working on improving his descendants' type as well as solidifying a line of true-breeding mice who are Aw/Aw cch/cch Fz/Fz u/u. It will take me at least three or four more years to come close to this goal, yet it only took one night of mouse passion (and one bad decision from a breeder) to lead to this! Very frustrating!
Ok, I'm done preaching to the choir! :lol:
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I hadn't noticed either. Hmm...
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Did you check under the couch cushion? When I lose my mind, that's usually where it is.
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