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Brindle or splashed?

2340 Views 21 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  evansrabbitranch
Ho do you tell? I have this little guy that I am not sure what is going on with him. His mom is an agouti tan dad is a blue tan. Litter mates include a black tan, blue, and a satin blue whose nose is darker than the rest of him. We have decided to call this guy John the Cheeser and he is our keeper from this litter.

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Here he is with his litter mates about a week ago, he is at the bottom:
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He looks like a sooty recessive yellow to me
Oh? Hmm, How do you get the sootiness? How do you breed away from it? I am keeping him because he is the largest of the litter with what I think is good ear set. My only other RY is also a buck. Sigh, wonder what I should breed him to in the future? I do like yellow mice, was kinda hoping he was something neat though. Or is sooty RY neat? I'm too new to telling colors to even know.
Added: Does it matter that the darker coloring is blue?
For sure this is no splashed. Spl/* needs homozygotous c-dilutions to show up.
You can breed away the sootiness of recessive red when you select for chocolate instead allowing blacks to grow up.
b/b e/e = no sootiness!

Good luck, and send updates please.

Roland
Chilloutarea Mousery - Tricolor , Splashed , Merle , Recessive Red
The place where science meets fun!
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The sooty is probably coming from being Agouti based. I do know that recessive yellow is a/a - e/e which is a black base and not agouti and I'm sure the blue is messing him up too. To get more yellow...if you have a black doe breed him to her...select the best typed doe from that litter (they'll all be carriers of yellow) and then breed him to his daughter...you should see a couple yellow in the resulting litter and hopefully ones that aren't carriers of other colors. The yellows will still be a bit sooty like Roland states, you'll want to introduce chocolate to remove it completely.
bethmccallister said:
The sooty is probably coming from being Agouti based. I do know that recessive yellow is a/a - e/e which is a black base and not agouti and I'm sure the blue is messing him up too. To get more yellow...if you have a black doe breed him to her...select the best typed doe from that litter (they'll all be carriers of yellow) and then breed him to his daughter...you should see a couple yellow in the resulting litter and hopefully ones that aren't carriers of other colors. The yellows will still be a bit sooty like Roland states, you'll want to introduce chocolate to remove it completely.
A good point Beth, thank you for adding this!
Roland
Oh, I have a chocolate doe I can pair him with, so should I pair with a black or chocolate? I have both.
If your chocolate is a/a - b/b then she would be perfect!
She is between the first and last photos on here in color:

http://www.hiiret.fi/eng/breeding/varie ... olate.html

Mother is an agouti and dad is a blue tan, grandparents are the same blue tan and an pew. My blacks are from agoutis and agouti tans fathered by the same blue tan, the agoutis and agouti tans are out of that blue tan and pew.
Never mind, I just took her out to look at her more closely, she's some kind of brownish blue. So all I have are blacks, sigh. Will blacks work at all? Other than this guy, I have one other RY, Goldshine:

He is paired with Pretty in Pink whom I refer to as a "dirty" PEW. If you look at her pic you will see what I mean by "dirty":

Should I wait and see what they give me?
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Ok, just use the black for doe for now then. You probably won't "see" any yellow in the first pairing unless the black doe is a carrier but when you pair up one of the resulting baby does with your buck you should see a couple yellow. Goldshine is called Fawn I think because he has pink eyes...he's really pretty :) I can't really tell what secondary color I see on your PEW doe though...might be a weird c dilute. Is she maybe Himalayan or Siamese?
I don't think so, she is out of the same stock as all my others. Only "white" I have had so far. I checked and my best black doe is currently paired to a lilac satin as I believe she may carry satin. She is all black but her tail which is more of a pinkish off black with a white tail tip and her paws, below the "wrist" and "ankle" are pink. After she raises that litter the sooty boy should be old enough to breed. So . . . Goldshine is a fawn and not a RY? Or is Fawn a specific shade of RY? My other self black is too young to breed, but I have a black with a white belly I could use, but I do not think that is too good of an idea, I want to improve my Moxes (I am assuming not true foxes, thus M=mock, oxes= foxes lol) for clean white bellies and an even line between top color and bottom color. This is a just for fun project as I have no clue how I got them genetically.
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Your Moxes are probably black tans with the belly color really faded due to generations of breeding without an outcross to a dominant red. Dominant red are really hard to find. I think Recessive Yellow may help improve the belly color back to the fiery orange color but I'm not sure. Recessive Yellow is actually supposed to be a deep red. Fawn is the same mouse only with pink eyes. Fox mice are genetically a(t)/* - c(ch)/* or in other words a tan with the chinchilla c-dilution. I have a few fox mice but they are sepia fox and not black fox. Breeding the tan gene into your Recessive Yellow project is not a good idea as you thought :)
But I could breed the RY to a black self for the RY project and to a black tan for the tan project? I could deffinitely do that. It would be simple to keep the two lines seperate. How hard is it to find chinchilla mice?
Yep that all sounds like a good plan. Not sure about the chinchilla gene...I got it by accident out of one of my mouse rescues.
If you had a suspected fox but no chinchillas to breed to how would you test the mouse for being fox? I imagine to know you would have to be able to breed to something that would have you end up with chinchillas right?
Presuming the Suspected Fox is black, it is either a poor tan or a black fox. A true black fox is at/* cch/cch. My preference would be to breed to a pew[one that was known not to carry agouti or brindle]. If the mouse is Black Fox the offspring would be half stone[a/a cch/c] and half stone fox[at/a cch/c].

This is just my preference if you were trying to prove or disprove the mouse as a black fox.
Um its pretty much impossible to know if a pew is carrying agouti or brindle here. Almost all mice in my area have agouti or brindle. I can not get mice from most other breeders either because they don't sell to people who feed culls to their snakes.
It is a preference, because it will limit the potential offspring and make it easier for you. But it is not a necessity.

If you use a pew who carries agouti and or brindle and your mouse is indeed black fox[at/ cch/cch] then the offspring will have more variation, but it is still very predictable:
Avy/at cch/c[beige/white/silver brindle fox]
Avy/a cch/c [beige/white/silver brindle]
A/at cch/c[no actual name, but an ticked mouse with gray/brown hairs evenly mixed with dingy silver hairs will have a white belly]
A/a cch/c[again no name, but a ticked mouse with gray/brown and dingy silver hairs]
at* cch/c[stone fox]
a/a cch/c[stone]

If your mouse is actually a poor black tan there will be black and black tan[agouti/agouti tan and brindle/brindle tan if the pew is one of these], but basically you would know by the time the pups were 7 days old, you'll either have a nest full of dull gray brown pups or not.
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Hi, I just wanted to say thanks for all the great info and for explaining all this. I hope its ok I post this here, I didn't feel like I should start a whole new thread... I am working with a very similar looking male and its been a reall mystery to me, so these posts were super helpful! I have just been learning so much from reading all the posts and great answers, it makes it all a little more understandable.
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