[Autumn2005]

I'm pretty sure I understand it, but common feeder mice, PEWs, are c/c p/p, right? So BEWs are just c/c P/*? So in order to breed BEWs, I would breed a PEW to a P/* mouse, and then breed the dark eyed babies back to the PEW parent? I know it's not a sure fire way, and it's about chance, but basically, here's my projected outcomes:

P1 gen: [c/c p/p] X [C/C P/P] I don't actually know what my BE parent carries, so I'm assuming they carry nothing

F1 gen: [C/c P/p] X F1[c/c p/p]

F2 gen possibilites: [C/c P/p] [c/c P/p] [c/c p/p] [C/c p/p]

Does that sound plausible? Then, c/c P/p would be the BEW I'm looking for, so just breed them to each other and cull the PEWs, right? Are there any special considerations I need for BEW mice, any special health problems to be aware of?

 

[ian]

Hi Autumn, there are some big differences between BEW and PEWS. PEWs are c/c they may be genetically black eyed mice but the c/c causes albinism so removes all of the natural colour pigment of the mouse both eyes and fur, nails and all. BEWs do not have c/c genes they technically are black eyed broken mice which have heavy white spotting (in fact covering their whole body).

 

[Autumn2005]

Oh... that's more complicated than I thought... so breed the least colored broken mice to the least?

 

[Autumn2005]

How many generations would that take? And once I get BEWs, would breeding BEW to BEW still make spotted babies?

 

[ian]

Yep, do you have any brokens? I sometimes have had some BEWs crop up in my litters even from crosses between fully marked mice so they can happen randomly. I also have a hobby line which has both rumpwhite and broken genes and I have been told that the combination of both marked genes makes BEWs more likely.

Just noticed your in the US or would have offered to hold onto some next time I get some crop up. They are really pretty Ive kept one BEW doe in my hobby line to see if I can get some BEW abys at some point.

I dont knwo how long it would take, I think you would just need some luck. I think chanes are once you cross BEW to BEW youre going to get a lot of BEW babies but you may have some broken babies in your litters. Brokens are popular as pets or you can remove them at about 3 days, as thats when the pigment starts to appear, if you need to.

 

[Jack Garcia]

PEW mice are often P/P (genetically black eyed).

This is confusing because there are three ways to get pink-eyed mice. Two are much more common than the third, so we'll concentrate only on those two:

The P-locus: this is when a mouse is p/p and results in mice who are argente, dove (AFRMA lilac), champagne, silver, and so on
The C-locus: this is when a mouse is c/c (PEW) or ch/c (himalayan) and has red eyes due to the C-locus

PEW (c/c) strips the mouse of all pigment whatsoever. Whenever a mouse is c/c, it is white with pink eyes regardless of what is on the other loci.

The best BEWs are a/a ce/c (variously known as stone or ivory), bred to be very light.

You can get BEWs from breeding spotted mice to each other, but this can take many generations (like Ian says, a large element is luck) and it can also result in megacolon. It's easiest if you're using two different white-spotting mutations at the same time (such as recessive white spotting--"broken," and dominant white spotting--"variegated").

 

[ian]

Oh yeah forgot to mention the light ce/ce BEWs. Honestly the best thing to do is find someone who has been breeding BEW's for years, its going to be much easier than slogging away trying to make your own, and these light selfs have just got such amazing type after so many years of breeding it would be near impossible to catch up enough to compete. Again I'm talking from a UK perspective.

 

[Jack Garcia]

The same is true in the US. There's no point in trying to make your own, if you can help it.

 

[moustress]

I have about a dozen BEW's courtesy of breeding yellow tris; a lot of c^e in that line. Very lovely, big, fat, satin BEW's.

 

[Autumn2005]

I'm not breeding to show, and over half my mice are either broken or carry broken. Basically I'm just doing this for hobby, nad I have no problem with mouse population. I'm feeding two royal pythons who could be eating rats, so they get 2-3 adult mice per week, when I have that many extra. But combining two different spotting helps? I only have recessive spotting, so I guess I'll look for others... Are belted/banded genes considered a variation of recessive spotting, or something else entirely?

 

[Jack Garcia]

They can work...the key is to have two different kinds of white spotting. But be careful of megacolon. Megacolon is a not-uncommon developmental side effect in mostly- or all-white cats, mice, horses, and other animals. Here's a couple articles geared toward rats: http://ratguide.com/health/digestive/megacolon.php and http://www.ratbehavior.org/megacolon.htm

 

[Autumn2005]

Ah... we call it (I also breed Paint horses) OWLS--Overo Lethal White Syndrome. Didn't know there was another name for it. So how can I tell if mice have it, and how do I avoid it? Or is it simply going to happen sometimes, and I just need to cope with the losses?

 

[Jack Garcia]

The best way is not to breed mice with too much white spotting, but that's counter to breeding spotted mice into BEW.

Since they're going to be snake food anyway, I'd probably just euthanize any and all who developed symptoms (a mouse doesn't have to be solid white to have megacolon, one that is only partially white can get it).