Pet Mice Forum banner

Amtma mousey Breeding Project [Large Images]

26K views 106 replies 10 participants last post by  Amtma Mousery 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi Everyone!
My name is Kan. My goal as a novice breeder is to improve the physical qualities of my Seal Point Siamese mice and strive for show quality. I use a basic strategy of vigilant line-breeding between Self Black and Seal Point Siamese. I began this strain as my first breeding project on December 17, 2014, in which I bred my founding pair, a Broken-marked Brindle buck and Blue Rex doe (Image 1 & 2).
Obviously, I started with pet shop mice that I acquired from a local store. Please understand that these mice are not nearly show quality or even close. After my 3rd generation, I out-cross my strain to a Seal Point Siamese buck (Image 3).

I am approximately on my 7th generation and very pleased with my current results. My primary focus is to improve proper type, specifically ears, body, and head shape. Mean while, gradually developing shading and coloring within the Seal Point Siamese mice. My immediate objective is to improve the darkening of feet within my Seal Point Siamese, in which I am line breeding to an alternative doe outside my strain (Image 4 & 5). After proper quality of coloring and shading has been established, I will begin focusing on size and other minor improvements, such as my clearly lacking tails.

I have included images of my current mice. All mice shown have been owned or bred by me. Enjoy!

Image 1: Blue Rex doe
Image 1.JPG

Image 2: Broken-marked Brindle buck
Image 2.jpg

Image 3: Siamese Outcross buck
Image 3.jpg

Image 4: Siamese doe with improved points
Image 4.jpg

Image 5: Siamese doe with improved points
Image 5.jpg
 

Attachments

See less See more
5
#5 ·
Update May 22, 2016:

I expanded the breeding quantity within the most recent generation (generation 4). I have implemented 3 breeding groups, as listed below. I will begin the development of 3 subgroups within my strain to help battle immunodeficiency and improve genetic diversity.
aa ch/ch = Siamese
aa C/ch = Black carrying Siamese
aa C/* = Black, possibly carrying Siamese
aa C/C = Homozygous Black

Generation 4 Breeding groups:

Murphy (aa ch/ch)- Breeding to 4 (aa C/*) does

Midnight (aa C/C)- Breeding to 2 (aa ch/ch) does

Boot (aa C/*)- Breeding to 2 (aa C/*)

Results: Midnight's litter will result in 100% Black carrying Siamese, thus his children will become the founding individuals of Strain A2. The pups from both Murphy and Boot, the Blacks will become Strain B1, and the Siamese will become Strain A1. From here forward, the subgroups as stated below will be implemented.

Future Breeding Plan for Generation 5:
As stated before, my Siamese strain is diminished of color and shading, specifically white feet. In result, I have bred my overall darkest buck, Midnight (aa C/C), to my best shaded Siamese doe (aa ch/ch). This breeding combination will result in 100% Black carrying Siamese mice (aa C/ch). I will select the best buck of this litter and breed to my current 7 Siamese virgin does, who are the youngest generation of Generation 4. Hopefully, this will reestablish a proper quality of mice, in which I will continue developing my subgroups from these 7 litters.

Subgroups:

Subgroup A1
Priority:
-Seal Point Siamese
-Improved Siamese Shading
Genotype Population:
-ch/ch

Subgroup A2
Priority:
-Black Carrying Siamese
-Best Type
Genotype Population:
-C/ch

Subroup B1
Priority:
-Self Black
-Darkest Black Color
Genotype Population:
-C/C
-C/ch

Long Term Breeding Cycle:
b = Buck
d = Doe

A1b + A2d = A1 & A2 (General improvement) - Every Generation
Genotype Results:
-C/ch - 50%
-ch/ch - 50%
A1: Best Siamese buck
A2: Black does with best type

A2b + B1d = B1 (Diversity for B1) - Every 4 Generations
Genotype Results:
-C/C - 50%
-C/ch - 50%
A2: Best Black type buck
B1: All current Black does

B1b + A1d = A2 (Darkening improvement) - Dependent on A1
Genotype Results:
-C/ch - 100%
B1: Darkest Black buck
A1: Siamese does require point and shading impovements.
 
#8 ·
Update July 5, 2016:

Since my last update, multiple litters have been born, approximately 150 pups in total.
Murphy the mouse posted above did not develop as I hoped, in result he was replaced by "Murphy New", likely to be his brother or cousin. I am currently focused on improving the shading of and removing white feet among my mice, in which I will then return back to developing type.

Litters are listed in chronological order:
A Black and Siamese doe, father unknown due to accidental breeding. - Babies are grown up
2 Black does bred with Murphy New- Babies are grown up
3 Siamese does bred with Midnight- Babies will be weaned soon
5 Black does bred with Murphy New- Babies will be weaned soon
6 Siamese does bred with Midnight- Babies are approximately 1 week old

Currently, no culling has been needed and no causalities have occurred among the does or babies. Although, the accidental litters are appearing a bit runty. They will not be used within my project. I will be wrapping up the summer breeding and begin decreasing my numbers in preparation of the fall and winter months.

Tomorrow will be the first wave of selecting the keepers and non-keepers. Midnight has been resigned from breeding. He will be rehoused on Thursday along with several of his sons. I will post pictures soon.
 
#9 · (Edited by Moderator)
Update July 9, 2016:

Another accidental litter...
100_2636.JPG


A bunch of black bucks that I will be choosing from soon
100_2643.JPG


Three Siamese females #1
100_2648.JPG


Three Siamese Females #2
100_2650.JPG


The future founding buck of my Siberian Generations: Amaranthaus, meaning 'unfading' in Latin
100_2657.JPG
 

Attachments

#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
Black doe doing her thing
100_2662.JPG


Siamese and black young does
100_2666.JPG


Different siamese young doe
100_2676.JPG


Litter #1 from Midnight and Siamese does
100_2680.JPG


Litter #2 from Midnight and Siamese does
100_2681.JPG
 

Attachments

#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
Update August 13, 2016:

The majority of mice have been selected, being the last litter will be selected next week. Resulting in the following stock population:

-4 previous Siamese does
-1 Black doe, serves as an excellent nanny and kind personality
-1 Siamese doe, my best doe back a few generations. I want to see how she ages, giving me an understanding of my current line.
-Approximately 30 virgin does, majority being Black carrying Siamese
-9 virgin bucks, 4 Black carrying Siamese & 5 Siamese

Here are a few photos of the new generation:

Black doe eating a piece of cooked meat
100_2708.JPG


Various does
100_2704.JPG


Siamese does
100_2703.JPG


Mycoplasma discovered within stock.
A young Siamese buck has contracted a severe case of mycoplasma. It is deemed to be very contagious, specifically this strain. I have isolated the poor fellow in his own container. I will evaluate for further action. His fur also seems greasy because I treated him with olive oil, in fear of him contracting lice too as I placed him in a new environment/aspen shaving.

No other mice seem to have contracted the disease. I have also noticed from personal experience that when Siamese mice become ill or contract severe mycoplasma, often their coats begin to molt into a more dark and rugged shading.

Picture of Sick Buck
100_2706.JPG
 

Attachments

#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
Update August 18, 2016:

More Mycoplasma
I have discovered that my latest litter of mice have contracted the Mycoplasma disease. I have contained and isolated both the original infected male and young mice. My main stock of bucks and does have been relocated to a temporary safety room, in which they are 2 levels away from the infected mice. Designated wheels and bottles have been given to the mice and I always handle the healthy mice before the infected mice.

I have recently taken pictures of the majority of my virgin bucks and does. Due to the extensive amount of female mice (approximately 40 in total), I was unable to take individual pictures of the does. I have also transferred my previous breeding does into their separate tank as it is becoming difficult to distinguish them from their female offspring.

In the fall and early winter months, I do not breed due to my busy personal schedule. I will most likely return to breeding these mice in November, which they will be approximately 5 months of age. By January, I will be utilizing all my mice and expecting mass amounts of litters again by late February or early April.

The following posts will be individually dedicated to a virgin buck, 6 in total.

My young females tank! The mice you see multiply by three, the rest are hiding under the aspen bedding. There's about 40 in total.

100_2776.JPG


100_2713.JPG


100_2712.JPG
 

Attachments

#15 · (Edited by Moderator)
Virgin Buck #2: Shark

As my personal favorite Seal Point Siamese buck, weighing in at 32 grams and having good type and finishing second best in ears. He is a favorable candidate for my next Siamese stud.


100_2727.JPG

100_2726.JPG

100_2722.JPG

100_2721.JPG
 

Attachments

#16 · (Edited by Moderator)
Virgin Buck #3: Aaron the Average

A gentle Siamese buck indeed, what he has in great personality, he takes the back seat when it comes to looks. Luckily, his owner is too much of a nancy to cut his time short. He lives another day with his brothers and cousins!

*I apologize for the poor quality of the first three pictures. Got to love windows Paint...

100_2732.JPG

100_2730.JPG

100_2729.JPG

100_2731.JPG
 

Attachments

#17 · (Edited by Moderator)
Virgin Buck #4: Joe

Serving as the Alpha male in the young buck group, he weighs in at 34 grams. But even a little size will not be an acceptable substitute for his lacking ears and type.


100_2749.JPG

100_2747.JPG

100_2745.JPG

100_2743.JPG
 

Attachments

#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
Virgin Buck #5: Weasel the Wheezer

Mr. Sick, it seems this Black buck is coming down with a cold. Weighing in at 31 grams with acceptable type, he better lose the sniffles and start looking at his brother Jimmy for advice.


100_2755.JPG

100_2752.JPG

100_2758.JPG

100_2754.JPG
 

Attachments

#19 · (Edited by Moderator)
Virgin Buck #6: Jimmy

Taking the name after my friend's co-worker, this mouse definitely puts in a lot of work. Working with a weight of 35 grams and fabulous type and ears, it looks like he's got the Black stud title on lockdown.


100_2762.JPG

100_2763.JPG

100_2765.JPG

100_2750.JPG
 

Attachments

#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
Virgin Buck Group Pictures

100_2774.JPG

100_2772.JPG

100_2771.JPG

100_2769.JPG

100_2768.JPG


Virgin Buck Information
So a little background about these guys, the majority of them are either brothers or cousins. I know for sure though that Weasel and Jimmy are brothers. Regarding the housing, I actually do keep all my virgin bucks together. I have not had any serious issues for the last 3 generations, although every now and then of course there is that one aggressive male. But I should state that the beginning generations of my line I did not house my males together, it was not until about the 7th generation I started attempting this tactic. Also once a buck comes in contact with a doe, just the scent even, I do not house him with other bucks any longer.

At the moment, I have about 11 virgin bucks housed together, 6 being the ones depicted above. I have noticed that the more bucks within a given tank, the less likely for issues to arise. The daily precautions of keeping them together consists of always having two water bottles and food dishes on opposite sides of the tank. Three large wheels are only available during the day and no toys are placed in permanently. The regular behavior of the bucks is that they sleep together, but just after they become active (normally around 10PM), there will be a brief period of smelling each other. All the mice will rush around smelling each others' genitalia but rarely is there ever squeaking or fighting. When I increase the amounts of bucks in the tank, I always introduce more than one buck and normally right after they have been weaned. Immediately after arrival, the new comers will be sniffed and thereafter a somewhat mass humping session will occur, in which all the bucks within the tanks will begin trying to hump each other, literally all the bucks, not just the alpha. They will ejaculate on each others' genitalia and then become calm for a few minutes before humping another victim. This activity resembles somewhat of a tag game, and surprisingly a lot of the males being humped will just stand there. After about an hour, this activity will subdue and they are back to normal.

Hope you enjoyed the photos and will continue posting periodical updates!
 

Attachments

#21 ·
Update August 23, 2016:

Final Selection
The final selection of my mice will occur on August 25, 2016. I will be transferring 5 of my retired black does, a litter of blues, a mix of young Blacks and Siamese, and 3 bucks.

Winter Tank Set-Up
Virgin Buck Tank
- 6 Bucks
Virgin Doe Tank
- Approximately 30 young does, most being Black carrying Siamese
Doe Tank
- 4 Siamese does
- 1 Black doe
- 1 Himilayan doe
Medic Tank
- Currently contains 5 mice that are infected with a serious case of Mycoplasma
Long-Hair Tank
- 1 Albino
- 3 Blues that are all blinded in the left eye

Current Bucks
I have decided to keep the following bucks:
Shark- Siamese
Snicker- Siamese
Aaron- Siamese
Jimmy- Black
Weasel- Black
Bean- Black
 
#22 ·
Breeding Plan for 2017

Strains:

Strain A1
Priority:
Seal Point Siamese
Size/Weight
Offspring Genotype:
ch/ch

Strain A2
Priority:
Black Carrying Siamese/Seal Point Siamese
Improve Siamese Shading
Offspring Genotype:
ch/ch
C/ch

Strain B1
Priority:
Self Black/Black Carrying Siamese
Size/Weight
Offspring Genotype:
C/C
C/ch

Strain B2
Priority:
Self Black/Black Carrying Siamese
Color
Offspring Genotype:
C/C
C/ch

Breeding Combination:

A1 Buck + A1 Doe = A1, Increase size

B1 Buck + B1 Doe = B1, Increase size

B2 Buck + B2 Doe = B2, Improve Color

A2 Buck + A2 Doe = A2, Improve Shading

B1 Buck + B2 Doe = B2, Inner-Mix

B2 Buck + B1 Doe = B2, Inner-Mix

A1 Buck + A2 Doe = A2, Inner-Mix

A2 Buck + A1 Doe = A2, Inner-Mix

A1 Buck + B2 Doe = A1, Cross-Over

A2 Buck + B1 Doe = A1, Cross-Over

B1 Buck + A2 Doe = A1, Cross-Over

B2 Buck + A1 Doe = A1, Cross-Over
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
Update November 26, 2016:

I have successfully contained and isolated the respiratory infection outbreak. I believe that the majority of my does have acquired an immunity to such disease while my bucks have not due to their significant decreased interaction with other mice. The majority of time, my bucks contract RI/illness a few days after being housed with females for mating. Luckily, they impregnate my does before falling ill. Hopefully, the offspring will inherit their mother's immune system and antibodies.

I did have a brief infection of lice, which likely originated from their aspen bedding. Other than this, all the mice are doing well. I have and plan to increase my holding capacity. Additionally, I will be riding the Myco disease out, basically breed out the disease within my lines.

Below is a few pictures of a pretty Siamese piebald doe, a few Siamese does, and my two upcoming roan studs. Sadly, I was/am too lazy to take photos of my blacks, remaining Siamese, and roan does. Sorry, another time.

Current approximate population:
50 Siamese does
30 Black does
20 Roan does

3 Siamese studs
1 Black stud
2 Roan studs
50 bucks of Siamese and Black

100_3137.JPG

100_3136.JPG
 

Attachments

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top